390mach1 49 Report post Posted December 2, 2015 I'm looking into building a 351W I'm trying to stay fairly low budget... I know yeah right, but getting a used block cam and lots of other parts I'm hoping to stay around 5 complete. Now here is the Kicker I'm hoping to be close to 490hp, I'm thinking of running Fox Lake Racing Edelbrock CNC E-Street heads. What are everyones thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted December 2, 2015 how much are those heads? i would use a better crank and rods with a true 490 hp. a budget stroker kit will cost you around $400.00 more than grinding your crank and putting arp rod bolts in your rods and possibly resizing them then buying the pistons and rings and bearings etc and it will more easily make that hp. crank grind ............. $180.00 bearings ................. $100.00 arp rod bolts ............. $80.00 resize rods .............. $100.00 forged pistons ......... $450.00 plasma moly rings ..... $80.00 total ........................ $990.00 heres one option 408 stroker kit $1260.00 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-16125030/overview/make/ford these heads $2050.00 http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/cylinder-heads/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-small-block-windsor/cylinder-head-style/assembled/cylinder-head-material/aluminum/brand/airflow-research-afr/intake-runner-volume-cc/205cc?N=4294918484%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294951337%2B4294918441%2B4294918482%2B401472%2B4294918378&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending or run dished pistons and these heads to save $350.00 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-52516601-c01/overview/make/ford this first cam will get you more hp than you want that with 408 ci so you could use the one below . . both cams require link bar lifters. Howards Cams p/n 222735-10 . . i would use 1.65 rockere if ou want big power 288 295 . . 235 241 . . 581 581 . . lsa 110 . . icl 106 this is a really good cam if you want strong bottom and mid range howards cams p/n 220525-10 280 286 . . 227 233 . . 597 597 . . lsa 110 . . icl 106 LIFTERS - Morel p/n 5323 . $350.00 quick fuel 850 mechanical secondary carb $592.00 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-ss-850/overview/ PUSH RODS - CHROMOLY .080 WALL RTHICKNESS . $120.00 INTAKE - $350.00 CRANK DAMPER . DURA BOND . $275.00 TIMING CHAIN . ROLLMASTER . $115.00 ENGINE BORE, BALANCE, 0 DECK BLOCK, CHECK LINE BORE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
390mach1 49 Report post Posted December 2, 2015 The heads are $1,575.00 http://foxlakeracing.davidnew.net/site/products-and-services/cylinder-heads/edelbrock-cnc-e-street-heads/ I'm thinking of going with the Scat 393 stroker kit now as the machine work on the block would be the same. I'm hearing that the edelbrock performer intanke isn't that great and that's what I got :( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted December 2, 2015 The heads are $1,575.00 http://foxlakeracing.davidnew.net/site/products-and-services/cylinder-heads/edelbrock-cnc-e-street-heads/ I'm thinking of going with the Scat 393 stroker kit now as the machine work on the block would be the same. I'm hearing that the edelbrock performer intanke isn't that great and that's what I got :( looks like those heads will be decent if they flow what they claim, but you should verify because those may be the $2000.00 fully ported heads. what do you mean the machine work will be the same? . . no point in wasting extra cash for a scat kit. also, why would you go with 393 when 408 costs exactly the same? you will need at least an rpm or air gap and if you like more top end than bottom end get a vic jumior and get it ported. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
390mach1 49 Report post Posted December 3, 2015 Ok I'm going AFR 195cc heads Mahle pistons, and he said is should be around 10.1 I was told that a 393 had less machine work than a 408 because he doesn't have to notch the block... I'm new an this will be the first motor I've ever had built. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted December 3, 2015 Ok I'm going AFR 195cc heads Mahle pistons, and he said is should be around 10.1 I was told that a 393 had less machine work than a 408 because he doesn't have to notch the block... I'm new an this will be the first motor I've ever had built. ok, xlnt . . i understand what happened with the ported eddy heads, were they the $2000.00 ones? you want part number 1383 then . . these will give you around 10.1 static compression with flat top pistons with 2 valve reliefs and your pistons 005" or ess below the top of the block and a 4.030 bore and standard fel pro head gasket. you really shpould have between .034" and .041" of squish/quench distance between the head and top of piston . . this means he must machine the top of your block which will cost you money but if he does it properly, it will also sqyare the top of the block to the crank which will give you even compression in every cylinder. i would also use cometic head gaskets that are .036 thick if he 0 decks the block . . if he leaves the pistons .005 to .007 below the deck, i woul use the .030" thick ones . . if your bore is .030, i would use the .030 bore ones . if it is more, the only size they have is .080 bore which is fine . . buy the ones for the AFR heads. http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=21_128 at 2m Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
390mach1 49 Report post Posted December 4, 2015 I wanted to buy the $1575.00 but after talked to every one they were talking about cutting down the heads so I went with the renegades heads that you have the link too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted December 4, 2015 I wanted to buy the $1575.00 but after talked to every one they were talking about cutting down the heads so I went with the renegades heads that you have the link too. what do you mean by "cutting down the heads"? the afr 195's i listed are defintely wicked Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
390mach1 49 Report post Posted December 4, 2015 oh no not the AFR the Fox Lake Heads would have to be cut down to 56-58cc chambers. this way I can just buy the AFRs off the shelf at Lanes Automotive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted December 4, 2015 Ok, you have a problem because you must run around 72 cc heads with flat top pistons otherwiseyour compression will be way too high . . You need dished pistons with 58 cc heads and the potential for detonation with dished pistons is typically greater than it is with flat top ones, so imo, they are not the best option. You would save around $1000.00 by using the eddy heads and an eagle stroker kit, plus, since the eagle kit is so much less than the scat kit, it would more than cover the cost of having your cylinders notched for the longer stroke which should be anywhere from $80.00 to $150.00 max and it only takes around 30 minutes to do. I think you need to do some serious thinking before you start spending money because its starting to sound to me like things arent quite right with something somewhere . . I would also use 4032 material pistons like Mahle or JE instead of 2618 material like some Probes are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SA69mach 39 Report post Posted December 5, 2015 So, what car is this engine going in? And what are your plans for driving the car? High hp engines are generally skewed toward one part of the performance chart, and every other part suffers accordingly. The bigger the displacement, the less dramatic the differences, but they are still there. A solid and perfect bottom end is an essential start point, no matter what path you take. That means competent machining and flawless assembly of near perfect parts. I am with Barnett on the call for some thinking and planning at this point. It is certainly achievable to produce one horsepower per cubic inch in a small block Ford. Rather more difficult and expensive to get significant higher hp than the displacement. The 408 allows for less stress on the package to get 490hp, if that is what you want, but it will still require a very good top end design and assembly. That is where the fancy valves, porting, machining, springs, valve train, and the most important part, the cam selection, all come in to play. You would be wise to get some "engine Masters" magazines and start looking at solid build sheets, results and costs in the marketplace. And an engine builder who can show you cars with engines he has built. Drive them if you can, and talk to the owners too. It is a big investment any way you care to look at it, so read and learn what you can. It may change your outlook and adjust your plans. Without any insult, I note that your one part so far is an Edelbrock Performer intake. This part is well know as a stock intake, just made in aluminum, to save weight and 'dress up' an engine. If you are considering a 490 hp build on a 351 Windsor block, then you ought to have known that. Maybe post again seeking ideas for your car, what sort of driving you will do, what transmission, rear end, suspension, etc. You will get more ideas than you might want, but also some very good information too. Like how the engines perform in driving conditions, how cool/hot they run, the idle characteristics of cams , and so on. Stuff that will matter beyond the engine builders horsepower target. Oh yeah, I love Lanes too.......what a great store. So much stuff there. I have to keep focused in there or I end up buying ten things I didn't know I 'needed' haha. Good luck on the next step. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeStang 247 Report post Posted December 7, 2015 Be SURE to have the Thrust bearing surface on the Eagle Crank checked out... It will likely need to be polished. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
