Help me get this car running good!

[Trinitys 134]

Well, I guess it’s time!

I need my car running so I can drive her!!! I hate going into the garage having her looking at me begging to make a trip down some twisty road hugging the payment. I’ve put way too much time and money into this car for it to sit unused!

 

Here is a quick history.

 

About 2 years ago I rebuilt the 351w and added mass-flow EFI ( http://www.mass-floefi.com/index.html ). I can work on cars with carbs all day….EFI kinda gets me though, I understand how it works and I just have issues tuning it I guess, I really don’t know. I assume it’s the efi but at the same time I rebuilt the motor as well so I may have screwed it up but I think I covered my bases. This is my 3rd 351W and it was straight forward, nothing real special. I could go through and dig up all the specs I have on the cam and springs, lifers etc if that would help.

It fires right up like id expect it but after that it idles high and dies if I don’t feather the gas pedal to keep it running. I can drive it but it really doesn’t feel like it’s smooth at all.

I do not get any codes from the computer at all. I did in the beginning but I cleared all of them with help from the guys at mass-flow.

 

So please take a few minutes and ask some question and give me a hand, I’ll do my best and if you guys get my '69 on the road........I will be extremely grateful!!!!

[Fordrevhead 29]

I'm still hung on carbs too but I'll give the basics a shot.

 

So no codes, so no bad sensors or anything out of range? You using the stock computer or the programmable? It may need to learn new air flow settings based on your cam and heads and such... but it should run well enough to drive.

 

What's you ignition? Is that wired into the system correctly so the computer can change the timing as well?

[Trinitys 134]

as far as i know there are no bad sensors....it a stock computer with a chip to match the specs i gave him on the phone when i ordered the system. think of it as a 90-91 mustang. same sensors and computer. the only difference is the gm maf. yes the distributor is as far as i know wired correctly. it was a preassembled harness.

[bnickel 10,004]

yeah give us the cam specs, compression ratio if you know it or at least what heads and pistons you used, what the timing is set at, etc. basically as much info as you can give us......BTW, did you put some fresh gas in it yet?

[Trinitys 134]

i did put fresh gas in it but i haven't changed the plugs....i might do that tomorrow.

[dchandler60 10]

Trinity is the oxygen sensor new, and where did you place the bung im assuming you have headers.. Sound a little like the o2 sensor??

[Trinitys 134]

Garland texas....hummmm

 

the o2 sensors were new when the system went together. the bungs are in the headers.

 

also, here is a link to my car pictures.....sorry for the size and quanity, i just wanted to show you guys and wasn't real concerned about appearance or anything.

http://trinityandhailey.com/EFI.htm

 

also i found my cam card and piston specs, i'll post it tommorrow.....the wifs callin for me to go to bed......:001_huh:

[ForceFed70 14]

Won't be the O2 sensor. You can disconnect the sensor completely and the vehicle will run pretty well without it.

 

So the Mass-flow setup is non-tuneable?

[Trinitys 134]

Not sure about what you mean by non tunable. It's just as tunable as a stock mustang with this 9al EEC-IV computer

 

 

Here are as many specs on what is on this car as I have, sorry for all the links, I figured you could get more info from the link then I could ever give you.

The EFI kit came with

30# injectors

MAF calibrated to match. I’ve already sent it back once to have it checked and recalibrated.

 

Heads are Windsor Sr.’s these are not new. I replaced the springs and rocker arms but not the valves. 200cc, valves are 2.02x1.600 11/32, 58cc chamber

 

Cam lifter kit K35-242-3

Here is a link to the exact kit I used

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Comp-Cams-K35-242-3-Cam%2FLifters%2FValvetrain-Ford-351W_W0QQitemZ370152299273QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090130?IMSfp=TL0901301510006r6756

 

Fuel regulator and summits 100 psi gage.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1∂=MAA-4305M&N=700+400249+115&autoview=sku

 

Distributor is, I think, a Mallory 7968704, I can look when I get home but the sheet I got is the exact same as this link.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/maa-7968704.pdf

 

Pistons are Probe SRS 12355-30.

http://www.probeindustries.com/Pistons/Pistons_SRS/Ford/Ford_351W.htm

 

 

Rings

http://www.sdpc2000.com/product/ACX9902-30/4030116116316.aspx

 

I hope this helps, if there are any items you need to help me out, let me know. I can take pictures and do videos as need to give you a hand.

[Boogerschnot 12]

Hey, are you in San Diego?

 

I see you were at Mustangs by the Bay. When was that?

[Trinitys 134]

Man I used to live in San Diego, did for 11 years.....I was in the Navy stationed at 32nd. I lived all over the place out there.

 

I would say that show was '04 or '05.

I loved going out to the show in El Cajon every wendsday and the swap meets at Qualcom on sundays. I moved back to Texas after I got out of the Navy in '07.

 

Where are you out there?

 

Off of Home Ave, Temecula St in OB and

 

Milton St in Bay Park

 

 

 

 

 

Keppler Place in Terrasanta

 

.

 

 

This is at Miramar MCAS hobby shop, on base

 

you can't hardly see it but the frame on the plate says

"lemon Grove, the best climate on earth" the guy i got it from put that on in the early 70's.

 

 

This was down fry rd west of fashion vally mall, the day I got the car. right behind that big gulf corse in mission valley.

 

Thats why the car has been sitting because after getting out it's like you have to pick up your life and put the pieces back and make everything fit. I finally am getting stable and "back to normal"

[bnickel 10,004]

well i see 2 or 3 possible problems.

 

1: first and foremost is the dizzy. in order to run this dizzy with your cam you would have had to change the gear to a cast iron gear for the flat tappet cam, these are setup to run with billet roller cams and the hardened steel gear could be eating up the gear on the cam.

 

2: the piston and head combo you have has got pretty high compression.

with 58cc heads it's 11:1 compression or 64cc heads it's 10.3:1 compression either of which is pretty high with iron heads, BTW the wnidsor SR heads should have 64cc chambers unless someone has milled the heads. if someone has milled the heads that much you're pushrods are now likely too long, so that could also be part of the problem too. in any case you may be experiencing pretty bad pinging problems in which case the computer would retard the timing so much that the engine runs like ass.

 

3: the cam itself could also be an issue since the computer isn't really designed for that much duration with such a short LSA (110 LSA), you really need a cam with about a 114 LSA and a little less duration @.050

 

 

first check everything out and make sure there are no vacuum leaks. make sure the timing is set correctly, i'd use the factory timing specs of about 6 degrees BTDC and total timing around 28-32 degrees BTDC with that much compression. also check the fuel pressure and make it's set to at least 45 PSI maybe even a little higher like around 48-50 PSI. make sure you have a good hot spark, and with the much compression it wouldn't hurt to use a CD ignition box like a mallory hyfire or msd 6a, or the cheaper version of the MSD 6a, the Street Fire ignition box which is still made by MSD. if you can't find any problems with these usual suspects then start checking the stuff above, especially the cam/dizzy gears, i might even start there and pull the dizzy and inspect the cam through the dizzy hole to see what the gear looks like.

[bnickel 10,004]

something else i just noticed and you should seriously consider upgrading is that stock alternator and stock mechanical regulator, at best that's a 65 amp alternator and you really should have more like a 100 amp alternator and electronic regulator. you can get a polished 100 amp unit on ebay for a around 100 bucks or so and elctronic Motorcraft regulator would be about another 40 bucks or so.

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/POLISHED-Ford-Alternator-100-amp-Mustang-1965-1985_W0QQitemZ150324771637QQihZ005QQcategoryZ33573QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

 

here's a 140 amp conversion kit for your stock alternator too, if it were me i'd go with this one

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-1G-40-65A-OEM-140-Amp-High-Output-Alternator-Kit_W0QQitemZ400030708165QQihZ027QQcategoryZ33573QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

here is the voltage regulator i would use. i've always had very good luck with the motorcraft regulators and won't use anything else now. same with the starter solenoid and any other electrical part they have for my car.

Edited February 11, 2009 by bnickel

[Boogerschnot 12]

Yep, Im in San Diego, working on 32nd st. right now at the Training support center. (FC2) Im living in the new base housing out in Point Loma right next to MCRD. Its going to be hard to leave this place just because I dont have AC..

 

I volunteered at the Mustangs by the bay show this year, and parked my car outside the show because it was still green, but next year Im showing it off..

[Boogerschnot 12]

Hey, is your Grande' on original suspension or what did you do to it? It looks lowered. And what size rims/tires are you running?

[ForceFed70 14]

Not sure about what you mean by non tunable. It's just as tunable as a stock mustang with this 9al EEC-IV computer

 

 

 

OK, so non-tuneable then (in it's current form). I've always wondered how they can use an ECU ment/tuned for a different engine and have it work.

 

Was hoping you could hook up a laptop and query the ECU...

[Trinitys 134]

Hey, is your Grande' on original suspension or what did you do to it? It looks lowered. And what size rims/tires are you running?

Send me a pm, I need this to stay as on topic as i can. I really need my car running and check out the flash thing at the top of the site i posted my pix on.

 

brian, i'll get back to you in a bit. today busy, time to chill a bit....now weres that 12 fl oz goodness..........oh there it is.......

[Fordrevhead 29]

Right, this is why I asked if it was "tunable?" What a lot of guys with the 347 Strokers in the GT's use around here with their laptop.

 

OK, so non-tuneable then (in it's current form). I've always wondered how they can use an ECU ment/tuned for a different engine and have it work.

 

Was hoping you could hook up a laptop and query the ECU...

[Trinitys 134]

Something that was brought up on another site was the fact that i do not have the computer grounded, it's sitting on the hump not bolted to anything.

[Trinitys 134]

here's a video....it starts right up, runs rich stumbles and dies.

 

What do you think?

 

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=52221080

[bnickel 10,004]

wel try ground the ecu with a test lead, just a length of wire with a couple of alligator clips on the ends and see if it makes any difference, i suspect it won't but i could be wrong. after that start checking everything above and let us know what's up.

 

 

BTW, forcefed the EEC computer is a self learning system for most part but can be tuned using a twEECer or other similar tuning device and a laptop

[dchandler60 10]

Maybe its just me but sounds like its starving for fuel, and then runs out of fuel??

[Trinitys 134]

fuel psi is 32 psi, i just checked it.

[Trinitys 134]

i'm gonna work on it some this weekend. hopefully i can get some progress then. i grounded the computer and no difference.....with jumper cables too..lol....

 

btw.....thanks

[stangme428 33]

how is IAC handled .. when i had a bad idle air control on my 96 cobra it had similar symptoms in that it started fine and would die shortly after. problem was that the IAC was sticking and it would stick random. .. so one day i would crank it up .. and it would run great.. 3 days or a week later ... maybe not .. it wasnt until it finally stuck that i figured it out. just my 2c:shifty: you never know...

 

 

ah i read an article on FM dot com ... the MASS-FLO kit uses a stock IAC valve.... make sure its not "gummed up" if used or make sure its installed correctly physically and check the power to it etc.

Edited February 13, 2009 by stangme428