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foothilltom

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Everything posted by foothilltom

  1. And thanks for the tip about testing for leaking. I don't know if you've seen my other thread, but I'm at this cross-roads of whether I should throw my time at this 302. If the heads are "functionally" the same, that wouldn't count as a strike against it.
  2. Ok, I think I have it. On the 289 (Windsor) head, the date code is "8B27". On the 302 (Cleveland), it appears to be "8B1". Would that make sense? If there are other codes casted in there, I'm not seeing them.
  3. Updated the post with the right photos. Where would a brother find the date codes? I'm staring intently at the photos...maybe I need to go back out in the daylight tomorrow and look for smaller castings?
  4. Hey guys, I took some good photos. I hope they help identify what I have here. In case the pictures are too difficult to see, I can say the following with confidence: The 289 head is from Windsor Factory and only has C80E and 7A casted on the valve side. The 302 head has the Cleveland Factory casting and has C80E as well as a J. So clearly these heads are not "matching" but I'm not sure if they are functionally different. They sure came from different places. My dial caliper only goes to 1/64 inch resolution and it appears to me the valve diameter is the same for both heads. I'm less skilled at measuring the combustion chamber, but they also appear to be the same. Let me know if the photos aren't useful and I'll zoom in. Valve side: https://photos.app.goo.gl/KnApKw86hSdAZyj22 https://photos.app.goo.gl/iRN9EIMSCGdtE58T2 Rocker side: https://photos.app.goo.gl/hBEL7WavyfwpGpxb8 https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZmquHdqLRFyDcew53
  5. I need to go get some close-up photos in the daylight tomorrow. Will post, but thanks for responding. Other thread:
  6. Hi guys, some background to provide context to my questions far below. Restored a junker 1969 coupe about 11 years ago with my then 14 year old son. Plain jane, 302/2V, C4. We focused on body work, interior, paint, etc. back in those days and never really tore into the drivetrain except to remove the motor about 10 years ago to replace a cracked shock tower. In other words, pretty ignorant about the history of the moving parts. We made modest upgrades (4V manifold, holley 600, pertronix, just simple stuff). I would say motor was never "strong" but started reliably and got the boy from A to B. 10 years later, the Mustang is back with me. Boy has no place to store it but has plans one day to make it his daily driver. So, my fatherly instincts have kicked in and I'm back to wrenching on the old girl. The motor has been leaking oil for what seems like years to me (engine bay and undercarriage coated) and I'd say the motor is generally just not running well. Sorry for the lack of specifics, but I'd describe the behavior as under-powered, poor idle, a noticeable "loping", runs hot, and some gray-ish colored exhaust. Did the diagnostics and tune-ups that I'm capable of. It's properly timed, makes good vacuum, and has low/consistent compression (95 lbs give or take all the way around). It runs, but I wouldn't trust it as a daily driver in Los Angeles area (where boy lives, I'm in Northern Cali). I've pulled the motor and breaking it down to find some "smoking gun". First oddity was cylinder heads with different castings: "302" and "289". I asked about that in a separate thread. 2nd surprise was noting the bores are .060 over. The PO was a doof and had no history on the car, but clearly this motor has been rebuilt once or twice (or thrice). Timing chain was quite loose. Bores looked "good" to my untrained eye (no scoring or obvious signs of distress). Rotating assembly seems good from 10 feet as I haven't pulled the crank or cam and done any close-up measurements. With all that...to my dilemma: I'd like to have confidence in the Stang so my boy can take it with him and Dad can retire as his mechanic. I'm getting old and it's high time he learn what it means to own a 50 year old vehicle. So, I'd very much like to have one last rodeo with my son and work his Stang back into daily driver status. The question is: swap the motor entirely, do a rebuild, or just "freshen" the motor (rings, gaskets, prayers). The biggest limitation is dough. I don't want to throw my money at the car as my 25 year old boy needs to experience what it means to own a car. He's just barely getting by (long story, this generation confuses me) and doesn't have endless money to put into the car. I'd say the budget is $2000. I'm happy to donate my time and it gives us a reason to get together. When I saw the .060 over, my first reaction was "game over". From what I've read, there's not a whole lot of room left and that size bore may already be part of the troubles. The heads with different castings might be a non-issue, but it would blow my mind if they are functionally different. I realize I'm asking this question badly, so I will try to get to the point now. Based on what I've said so far, would you be inclined to: 1. "Freshen up" the existing 302 (rings, gaskets). Solves leaks and possibly the low compression and pray that it runs better 2. Rebuild existing 302 in a bigger way (requiring machine shop and all that goes with that) 3. Swap the motor. Thinking a 351W swap for example. Make effort to re-use parts as I can. And as a variant of #3, I'm wondering if folks have opinions on crate 351W from places like Summit vs. shopping around on craigs looking for somebody's awesome project motor that just never got where it was going. I hope I've provided enough information to at least get some initial opinions. I just need a hard SHOVE in one direction or another. I don't want to put several hundred in the existing motor only to be told it's a lost-cause, but if there's optimism that the motor is worth salvaging, I'm open to the rebuild idea. Thanks very much for listening and hope to get some opinions. Tom
  7. Hey guys. Was surprised to see two different castings on the driver/passenger heads on my boy's 69 coupe 302 . Wondering if you can help me determine if there's any real difference between them. One head has "302" stamped on the valve cover side. Turning it over, I see "C8OE" with a "J". Research suggests this is : C8OE-J 68-70 302 Valves 1.78, 1.45 The other head is stamped "289" and "7A" on the valve cover side and a smaller but readable "C80E" stamped on the other side. No letter designations that I could find. This makes it hard for me to figure out if these heads are the same fundamentally. The motor isn't original and the casting reveals a 1971 Torino/Fairlane origin. I only mention that as there clearly wasn't a purist doing the engine swap back in the day. If these have different specifications, it may explain a lot of the weird running behavior this motor has (separate thread on that). Would love to hear any confirmation that these heads are different based on what I've reported. God bless, Tom
  8. Hey Bob, there will be pictures, sho' nuff in good time. I'm moving into a big decision phase with the Stang and will need group wisdom. Stay tuned.
  9. Hey guys. It's been about 8 years since I darkened the doorway of this great forum. Hope everybody is still alive and kicking. This game called life has unfolded and the 69 302 coupe my son and I built together oh so many moons ago has once again landed in my garage. My son is 25 now and off living his life and has no place for the stang. So it sits with me now. Bwah-ha-ha-haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Anyway, I would like to get back on the horse (pun intended) and start asking some questions. Just thought I should say "howdy" first before just shamelessly picking your brains. Hope all is well. FoothillTom
  10. Based on what you've described, the return spring is the next best suspect, but the "jerky" behavior you initially reported doesn't quite square with an overly energetic spring. You'd think it would just be consistently harder to open the throttle. One way to find out...swap out a weaker spring! Best of luck. Tom
  11. Based on what you've described, the return spring is the next best suspect, but the "jerky" behavior you initially reported doesn't quite square with an overly energetic spring. You'd think it would just be consistently harder to open the throttle. One way to find out...swap out a weaker spring! Best of luck. Tom
  12. Perhaps pictures of your throttle cable setup (coming out of the firewall, the angle at which it comes in to the carb, the bracket that holds it, and the attachment to the carb itself) would help. The geometry of the cable bending toward the carb could cause the stiffness you are describing. Can you try the experiment mikem suggested? This mystery can be solved by removing variables in a controlled way. And speaking of variables, it's unlikely, but perhaps the bushing in your throttle pedal is bad and causing it to hang up? Good luck.
  13. Perhaps pictures of your throttle cable setup (coming out of the firewall, the angle at which it comes in to the carb, the bracket that holds it, and the attachment to the carb itself) would help. The geometry of the cable bending toward the carb could cause the stiffness you are describing. Can you try the experiment mikem suggested? This mystery can be solved by removing variables in a controlled way. And speaking of variables, it's unlikely, but perhaps the bushing in your throttle pedal is bad and causing it to hang up? Good luck.
  14. Your brother sounds like a fair, honest, nice guy. $1K over what he paid is a smoking good deal for you. Above all else, family first. If the deal gets sideways, walk away from it and never think of it again. There are many cars out there for you. My sage advice. Cough. Ahem.
  15. Your brother sounds like a fair, honest, nice guy. $1K over what he paid is a smoking good deal for you. Above all else, family first. If the deal gets sideways, walk away from it and never think of it again. There are many cars out there for you. My sage advice. Cough. Ahem.
  16. Sounds to me like a bad turn signal switch. This little guy is located behind your steering wheel and has many circuits coming through it including your tail lights, front/rear signals, and more. If you do replace it, be very careful how you match up the 9 or 10 wires coming out of that bad boy. Turn signal swtich, IMHO, based on the above. Though there are a number of other simpler explanations: bad ground, bad headlamp switch, bad bulbs, etc. Best to rule things out in some logical sequence using a test meter. I can't imagine they are soldered, but POs have done stranger things. I'd try prying the plug off the headlight gently and if you're convinced it's permanently attached, you will need to locate your wire cutters. Your "parking lamps" in the front are also your turn signals which are controlled by the flasher. It's possible your flasher is bad, but it's best to test all this with a meter before you start shot-gunning new parts. If it looks "factory", it could be for a trunk light option, the license plate marker light (this should be obvious). Best to get a meter and test for 12V with the light switch in the first, then 2nd position, with the turn signal activated, etc. A picture of the plug along the harness will also be helpful to identify it. Seriously, you should consider getting familiar with basic wiring, the wiring diagram for our 69s, and a volt meter. These skills are indispensable when debugging electrical issues... ...or it could be a low battery as Burn suggested...be systematic and you'll find the problems! Good luck! Tom
  17. Here's a pretty simple test to rule out the gauge (and the associated electronics): Remove the plug connected to the fuel tank sending unit on the underside of the tank. It should pull right off. With the key in the ON position, touch the metal part of the connector you just removed to a good ground. You may have to pull the rubber sleeve out of the way if it has one. If the needle goes all the way to full, you most likely have a bad sending unit. After sitting 8 years, the float could have developed a hole and it's just sitting at the bottom of your tank (more or less). If that's the case, drain your tank, remove the sending unit and check it out. It's a pretty simple repair. Be sure to use jack stands. Good luck. Tom
  18. +1 on Mach1Rider. I just stared at my parts manual some more and there is another nut that is VERY hard to reach/see that comes off from the inside. And it was stupid of me to say it "is not rusted". How would I know? I meant to say, it is probably not rusted given how much hardware holds this baby in place. FWIW, it took me a LONG time to get my booster off. I would up removing the seat to minimize all the contorting. Get yourself in there good and tight and find that bastard nut. Good luck!
  19. You should probably get a parts & body illustrations or some kind of repair manual. Getting the booster off is back-breaking if your seats are in. The bolts that come off from the engine side are just the beginning. You have to disconnect the power booster from the brake pedal and at least 3 (possibly 4) bolts from the inside of the car. Your booster is not rusted to your firewall...it's just held in by lots of stuff. Good luck.
  20. Hey RacerX, is it your recollection that the "self adjusting" feature only works when you stop while moving backward? I read somewhere that -- after making the adjustment that you already described -- you accelerate and stop quickly in reverse for the auto-adjust. Maybe it works both ways? Just curious.
  21. Hey Chris, most of us feel your pain on the breaker points. Getting them just right is a PITA to say the least and proper setting is crucial for timing/dwell. If you're in the mood to spend $99, consider upgrading to a Pertronix Ignition Module to eliminate the points entirely. There's going to be a simple reason for your problem, but it usually takes "starting from scratch" to find it. I suggest building up from the basics. Timing. Factory is 6-8B (more or less) though many of the fellers seem to advance as far as she'll go w/out pinging. I'm not good enough to play this by feel, so I break out the timing light and set it precisely. Note that your point setting will affect timing. Get your Dwell meter fired up and get the dwell angle set properly (i forget the exact value, but I want to say 29 degrees). You can look it up easy enough. It's *really* hard to get this right, so plan on pulling that distrib cap many times and farting around with those points (do I need to say Petronix again?). Make sure you disconnect and plug the line to the vac advance to set the timing and work at a consistent idle. Once timing/dwell are verified, you can cross that off the list more or less. Idle-mixture doesn't sound like your problem. Signs are pointing to the power circuit (aka fuel delivery). That stock autolite could be your problem. My son's 302/2V ran like crap and we played all the games I'm describing to you. We eventually threw up our hands, swapped out the autolite for a friend's 2V holley he had laying around, and OUILA! it ran awesome. Carbs are intricate animals and there could be any number of issues with clogged passages, baffle incorrectly seating, etc. Maybe the carb shop you patronize would let you borrow one for an experiment? Another basic item is the fuel mixture. The symptoms you're describing could fit an overly rich mixture problem. This is not the same as your idle-mixture. Does your exhaust smell "gassy" or any "oily" exhaust? Since your car has trouble starting after it initially dies, I'm wondering if your plugs are getting fouled by the rich mixture. Your autolite should have a sight screw that you can remove to check the fuel level in the bowl. The fuel should just trickle out if the floats are set properly. If the fuel pours out, you are running rich. This could be an improper float setting or your fuel pump is overwhelming your carb. Hell, it could be improper jetting. Anywho, a rich mixture can wreak havoc on how your engine runs. I need to run now, but I have additional thoughts for later. You'll get this licked...just be open to starting from scratch and re-checking these settings over and over as you change stuff up. Tom
  22. +1 on taking pictures during disassembly! It's easy to get confused which shoe goes where as they are different depending on the left or right side of the car. In other words, don't just take a picture of one side. Do one side at a time like the fellers have said here. And if you don't have one, do yourself a favor and invest in the hand tool to remove and replace those small springs. It will safe you some heartache. I also bought the "brake spoon" (or whatever its called) to remove the long spring at the top but later realized I could have used a number of normal tools for that. You can do this. I'm about a 3 out of 10 on the mechanically inclined scale and I did it!
  23. I don't know what part of the country you're in (I'm in Northern Cali), but what works out here is yellow-jacket prevention. We hang those yellow cylindrical traps (the ones with the cotton ball soaked with the smelly crap the insects love) very early in the season (like around Feb) in strategic places. The theory is that the queens come out of hibernation first and get caught in the trap early. This obviously eliminates a crapload of future wasps. This has worked for us for about 10 years now. We had a spring/summer about 11 years ago that was just awful: yellow jackets everywhere. This process has settled their hash. I realize you're already over-run, but this might help you for next time. tom
  24. Hi Chris, here are a few thoughts based on my experience (such that it is): Don't lump together idle behavior and "running" behavior. These are different animals entirely and most likely have unrelated causes. I'd suggest getting your idle circuit working "just so" before tackling any other problem so you don't chase your tail. If you can't get your idle circuit dialed in, there's obviously a problem that needs to be found. It's great that you've brought a vac gauge into the mix. Your car should comfortably idle in the 600-900 range at maximum vacuum. Make sure the engine is warm and the choke off entirely. If you get tired of waiting, just manually disengage the choke. The choke just introduces another variable you don't want. As somebody suggested, get your idle-mixture screw baseline set. Turn them all the way in (both sides) and back out 1.5-2 turns (as a starting point). Adjust until you get to max vacuum and lowest idle. If you can't get 'er to idle correctly, it's time to start diagnosing possible causes. Vac leaks are an obvious concern though it sounds like you don't suspect that. Anywho, get your idle circuit right before you press on. This way you're dealing with fewer variables as you move on to the "power circuit". When I read your post, my first thought was "power valve". I don't believe you've answered the "what kind of carb" question, but if it's a holley, you have a power valve (PV). The PV is supposed to open (to deliver more fuel) when vacuum drops to a certain level (depending on the rating of the PV). If the PV doesn't open at the right moment, the engine would stumble and possibly die upon wider throttle. Does your engine die only under a load? Or can you reproduce the stumble/die by just quickly opening the throttle in neutral? One other thought is your vac advance. If you don't have one, borrow a vacuum tester (one that creates vacuum, not one that measures it) and see if your vac advance is leaking or broken. Your vac advance could also explain a stumble/die condition under load. In summary, take it one step at a time: diagnose/fix idle behavior before moving on. Best of luck! Tom
  25. What he said. There are at least two "flavors" of Marti reports you can purchase. You'll want to be sure to get the deluxe one that has production numbers (1 of X) factoring in all your options.
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