Brown lights

[prayers1 153]

As your aware I’m not using the voltage regulator at all. Ive been using this system with a 60 amp alt for a few years.  I just installed the 140 amp alt, so I guess it’s too early to tell if things were to melt. 
 

Since you guys have brought up the inadequacy of the 10 ga alt wire. I’m a little freaked and don’t want to have any concerns, especially if I have a cruise tomorrow night and it’s about an hour away. So, I wound feel a little more comfortable if I change that 10ga one wire to a 4 ga.
 

It seems this has brought m to a charging issue. So, if I change the alt wire to 4 ga that should balance things for now until I address the headlight issue. 
So..... Should I change that now???

[1969_Mach1 333]

Good idea to change out that charge wire on the alternator before driving it much more.  The wire length you need looks short from the picture.  You can probably get away with 6 ga. wire so it doesn't look like your alternator is connected with a battery cable.  There are plenty of charts and tables online the list wire size amperage and length rating.

This kit from Painless Wiring is rated at 190 amps and it includes 6 ga. wire.  It actually looks like a nice kit.  Might be worth looking at for later.  I installed a complete Painless Wiring harness in another project, 1956 Ford F100 pickup, I think they have nice products.

https://www.painlessperformance.com/wc/30700

[prayers1 153]

Thank you 1969_Mach 1 for that information. It does look more stable then the Jegs one I have.  You mention that my wire looks too short, but wouldn’t short equal less resistance. I would think that’s better. 
 

I might have come to that bridge that I’ll have to replace the 51 year old wiring this Winter.
 

Because of Covid, Car Shows are starting to pop up all over and the weather is right for cruising!!!!!

Thanks again all for your guidance!

[1969_Mach1 333]

I guess I wasn't clear.  It looks like only a short length is needed.  Absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Resistance to current flow in a length of wire increases as the length of wire increases.  That's partly why when batteries are moved to the trunk larger size cables are needed.  So for this and most automotive wiring situations, shorter is better when it comes to function. 

[prayers1 153]

Had a good cruise last night, about 200 cars up and down the street.

Now gave an 8 ga alternator wire. Last night with headlight on it read 13.5 . The drive home at night was about an hour, read 13.5. Without likes it’s 14+.

Checked wires when I got home, none were hot, either was the alternator,

should I change the Alternator wire from 8 to 4 gauge?

Someone on the Facebook Cruise page posted my car

 

[danno 128]

So the facts are that a #8 copper wire has 0.00063 ohms per foot at 68 degrees.  Let's say your wire is 3 feet long from the alternator to the battery.  That is 0.00189 ohms. If you have lights, fans, and everything on  and drawing 100 amps, that is a voltage drop of .189 volts in the connection between the alternator and the battery.    There are also voltage drops in the connections on each end and at the fuse. And then there is also a voltage drop on the negative wires to the battery. 

One thing you can do is meaure the voltage drop from one end of the wire to the alternator to the other.  Use clipleaads on your voltmeter and measure from the bolt on the back of the alternator to the battery terminal.  Start your car, and turn on lights, engine fans, and heater fan inside the car.  If that voltage exceeds 1 volt, that is your problem.   Also measure the voltage between the ground terminal on the alternator and the minus terminal of the battery.  Maybe you have dirty connections on the ground wire from the engine block to the firewall?  These tests will prove it. 

I also have to wonder about the use of a 60 amp fuse with a 140 amp alternator.  If this fuse has not blown, that tells me you are never using more than 60 amps. 

I would not worry about the lights for now, figure out the charging problem.  Adding the relays on the lights is a great idea, and can be done later.  You have different things contributing to the problem.  Alternator wire, ground wire connections (maybe),  weak headlight wire connections, headlight wire voltage drops, etc.  

 

[1969_Mach1 333]

I wonder if the alternator is also working correctly.

[prayers1 153]

How do you check amperage at the alternator?

FYI- I’m not using the voltage regulator, just the 1 wire from the Solenoid to the Alternator

So, shorten the 1 wire. Should I change it to the 4 gauge? 

All grounds are with a 4 ga wire. (1) Ground from block to firewall,. (2) ground from battery to radiator support. (3) Ground from battery to Alternator, from there to block. 

 

 

 

[Midlife 814]

Best way to measure amperage is with an inductive pickup as an accessory to a digital volt-ohm meter, and not cheap.  The pickup is similar in concept to that used by a timing light around a spark plug. 

[1969_Mach1 333]

Shortening or changing to a 4 ga. alternator charge wire isn't necessary.  A 6 ga. charging wire should be fine since the the length you need isn't very long.

Grounding:  Battery ground to engine block.  Then engine block to body somewhere near where a motor mount bracket attaches to the body.  4 ga cables for both of these should be fine.  I also run a ground strap from the back if the passenger side cylinder head to the firewall.  That ground could be smaller than 4 ga., 6 or 8 ga. would be fine.

But again, I'm not convinced the alternator is working correctly.  What brand alternator is it?

[danno 128]

A lot of parts supplier shops have an alternator load tester.   You can take it in and they put it on a spinning contraption and hook a load up to it to measure the voltage as the output current increases.   Maybe you could send it back to the manufacturer to have it tested?  Shipping makes that difficult.  

Maybe take it to a shop to measure the current when the fan and lights are on?   That should be a 2 minute test if they have the clamp on ampmeter. 

I would hate to have you purchase a new alternator and find out the problem is something else. 

Have you checked the wire from the starter relay to the battery?   This could also be a problem, even though it is not likely. I have seen these poorly contructed and causing an issue.   Turn on the car and run all the fans and all the lights.  Measure the voltage at each end of this wire.   Put the + lead of a voltmeter right on the lead terminal of the battery and the - of the voltmeter on the wire going to the alternator from the starter solenoid.   This will give you an idea if the voltage drop is in this wire.   It is a slim chance, but I have seen these fail.  I also know that, if everything is working correctly and the car is running, there should never be any current in this wire.  All power the car needs to run everything should come from the alternator. 

[danno 128]

I thought of something else. From what I understand, your negative wire from the battery runs directly to the mounting bolt of the alternator, is this correct?    Measure the voltage drop in this wire when you have the fans and lights on, as I discussed above.  Put a voltmeter + on the center lead terminal of the battery and the - of the voltmeter on the case of the alternator. With all fans and lights on, this better be under 0.1 volt. 

[prayers1 153]

Danno- My mistake, ground first to block then alternator.

Today I just finished changing the 1-wire to a 4 ga. Old 1-wire was 26”, the new is 19”.

I removed the 60 amp fuse because the terminal ends of the 4 ga wouldn’t fit. I’ve replaced it with a 100 amp breaker. 
 

taking a break before I test everything in about an hour.

[prayers1 153]

Check all my voltage drops positive And negative and all were Zero. This was with out the car running. 
Is the ground wire for the headlights below the solenoid? If so that was Zero as well

[danno 128]

You need to check the voltage drops I discussed with everything on.  I would expect zero with it off, which is what you got. 

The ground wire from the battery typically goes to a mounting bolt of the alternator. If your ground wire goes to the block ( somewhere) and then to the alternator, how does ground get back to the chassis?   Typically there is a wire from the back of the engine block to the firewall.  Also very typical is that this wire is corroded, weak, dirty, or missing. Do you know of this wire I mention?   

 

[prayers1 153]

I have a ground from the back of the block to the firewall and a ground from the negative terminal to the lower section of the radiator support as noted in the pictures. 
So, should I switch to ground to alternator first then to block?

Also do you know where the ground is for the lights. Is it 1 ground for all lights or is there a ground on each bulb.

Thank you Danno!

[prayers1 153]

Put a new Solenoid on, cause I took the nut off the lug to get more room for the large terminals. Somehow I messed up the solenoid, cause the motor won’t turn off. Well, good thing for that, cause the new solenoid has a longer lug.

I cleaned off all terminal ends and reinstalled the solenoid. Started the car and the heads lights seem a little brighter. Actually the side markers and all seem brighter. Was a little late in the evening to check voltage ( didn’t want to wake the neighbors up). I’ll get to it this morning.

Still need clarification where the ground is for the headlights.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Ok your taxing the memory hole here but check the wire harness near the headlights on each side, there should be a short ground wire screwed to the rad support.

Yes still floating around here even tho it causes secound thoughts of selling my girl off.

Now in Washington 75 miles north of the crazies of Portland, no fires but plenty of smoke till it started a monsoon rain yesterday.

And Why it the horn deleted ? Do you just yell out the window now.

[1969_Mach1 333]

On my stock harness, the headlight ground is on the passenger side inner fender panel below the stock voltage regulator.  I don't see it in any of prayers1 pictures.

[prayers1 153]

Is this the one your talking about 1969_Mach1.

So I assume that is the only ground for headlight on a 69?

[1969_Mach1 333]

Yeah, I haven't looked in a while, but that's the only place I remember there being a ground on mine.  When I opened the harness on mine to rebuild it, I recall all the grounds being spliced together and ultimately ending up in that location.

[prayers1 153]

Don’t know if I did this right.

put voltmeter red lead to positive post and neg lead to back of alt bolt from the 1-wire.

w/o fans &  lights with car running -.015

with fan and lights -.017

With fan no lights-.15

Charging at battery 14.56

charging at battery pos and neg on alt case 14.56

 

[1969_Mach1 333]

Was the charging voltage at the battery with the fans and lights on?  Or what was the combination?

If you switched the leads on the voltmeter the readings would not be negative.  That doesn't matter at this point.  The only voltage drop that looks a little high to me is the fan and no lights combination.  Are you certain that reading is correct.  Voltage drops across a wire will increase as load (current flow ) increases so both fans and lights on should yield the largest voltage drop across that charging wire.

[Midlife 814]

7 hours ago, prayers1 said:

Is this the one your talking about 1969_Mach1.

So I assume that is the only ground for headlight on a 69?

That's correct for 1969.  1970 headlight has separate grounds for both sides.  I often find that the ring crimps need to be re-crimped to get good continuity.  The crimps tend to loosen with age. 

[prayers1 153]

Fans and lights on was the highest at -.017.

i believe that if I have 13.5 volts with the lights and fan on, then that is good enough for me.

i do believe That the 25 watt low beam bulb is a little brighter than before. I also believe they have been at its brightest even with the old 60 alternator. I will be getting LEDs, so that should take some burden off the load.

I wonder, if I take the ground to the lights in the above picture directly to the battery negative. If that would make them brighter???