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Adam

Fighting a never ending battle

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I don't even know where to begin.......I'm just so frustrated and so mad right now.

I have this CSRP rake booster kit and it just doesn't want to fit correctly. I had it bolted in and noticed after I had the car towed to a mechanic the master cylinder was rubbing against the shock tower. So I decided to pull everything out, interior and dash is still out of car, and replace it with a thinner booster. Got the new booster today, Pirate Jack unit off of ebay, and was finally excited to be done with the rubbing issue. Heck, I even ground down the master that came with the CSRP kit and it still can't be removed by itself. Any way. I start looking everything over and can't wait to install the thing in the car. I mock it up but noticed I was shorted the template to modify the firewall......not so excited anymore. So after a phone call I was sent the template via email which doesn't do any good if I don't know if it will print to scale or not. Then I head out to the garage and start touching my shiny new parts and then it dawns on me...I totally forgot about my Modern Driveline T5 cable bracket!!!! So I slide the MD bracket over the studs on the back of the booster and................................it doesn't fit. The new booster is a 9" unit and the bracket  where the cable attaches isn't tall enough to clear the booster. Then I thought "maybe I can make that one section a bit longer to clear??" Nope. It hits the bottom of the cowl almost as is so making it longer would 100 percent not work.

So now here I am with no brake booster or brake system that I am happy with. The Mustang doesn't appear to have ever been wrecked so I'm not sure why the master hits the shock tower. I have had this car for 5 years and in the time I have managed to install a Painless Wiring system on the 5.0, which still doesn't run right, installed the lower dash frame and pedal assembly, and the steering column which I need to now pull back out to send it in to be rebuilt. I just can not win with this car. It's almost as if a higher power is sending me signals to get rid of the thing and move on with my life.

End rant.

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3 hours ago, mustangstofear said:

You're not seeing a booster on there are you LOL.  Ours is a manual system that works just as well. 

I thought you reinvented the wheel. Manual works just as well? then what the heck did i put on hydro for :-)

 

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Since switching (I call it an upgrade) from power to manual, I can't recommend power brakes. But I do feel your pain Adam. 

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My experience has been,

1 step forward, 3 steps back, and shell out some more money. Eventually it gets done and something else will fail or need upgraded.

If it was easy, everyone would have a Classic or Antique

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Would it be possible to have someone take a piece of string and run it from the firewall where their booster hits the firewall and run it to the middle of the master cylinder? I'm curious to see if the CSRP kit is actually shorter than a stock unit. I ran string and came up with 17" the way I did it in the photo. I know it isn't a correct way of doing it but I'm curious. I may have to end up switching to a good manual master cylinder. If that's the case I'm going to need even more help :(

118429456_334590931241522_8343387174545207550_n.jpg

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Just curious, what is worng with the factory booster and system?  It fits. 

Maybe we need dimensions.  How far from the firewall to the Master cylinder side of the booster?   is the Master longer?  is that why it is hitting?   

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1 hour ago, Brian Conway said:

From My Car.  All stock stuff.  Brian

Bendix Measurment a.JPG

I measured mine the best I could the same way and have 14 1/2" from firewall to the end of the master cylinder. Yours looks to be maybe 13 1/2" long???

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1 hour ago, danno said:

Just curious, what is worng with the factory booster and system?  It fits. 

Maybe we need dimensions.  How far from the firewall to the Master cylinder side of the booster?   is the Master longer?  is that why it is hitting?   

I inherited the car from my late brother 5 years ago. When I got it the car had manual brakes on it. He had this CSRP kit new in the box so I decided to install it and all new pedals and pedal bracket. The CSRP kit makes the master cylinder hit the shock tower and it rubs. I physically can not remove the master, even to save my life. So I took it out and bought another booster that was 9". It would clear the shock tower fine but my Modern Driveline clutch cable bracket that bolts behind the booster no longer would clear the 9" booster so I sent it back. Now I've been debating to use a modern style plastic master cylinder with my disc/drum brakes and convert it to manual brakes. BUT!!! After seeing Brian's photo and his measurement I'm thinking this CSRP kit is a POS and that is what my problem is.

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I also want to add. I did post another thread about the CSRP kit and this one was or less a rant post. It got moved to the tech section those so now there's two posts about the same problem lol. That was not my intentions to have two posts about the same thing.

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Is there a difference in depth between a Midland and a Bendix brake booster?

 

Also, I would like to know why you have to switch out brake pedals between power and manual? Isn't the rod connected to the brake pedal that gets pushed into the booster or master cylinder in the same position for either one? Does one offer more leverage than another?

"EDIT" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Found my answer. But now a new question. Would it make a difference if I were going to run a newer Ford style master with the plastic tank on top? Or is it still best to swap out the power brake pedal for a non power brake pedal?

 

Right now I have a power disc brake pedal installed in the car. If I bought a adjustable push rod do I really need to swap out the power brake pedal if I switch to a manual master cylinder only?

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23 hours ago, Adam said:

I also want to add. I did post another thread about the CSRP kit and this one was or less a rant post. It got moved to the tech section those so now there's two posts about the same problem lol. That was not my intentions to have two posts about the same thing.

Sorry brother, I moved it not realizing there was another thread. It has so much tech in it I just figured it belonged here. Most here understand the need to vent.

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56 minutes ago, RPM said:

Sorry brother, I moved it not realizing there was another thread. It has so much tech in it I just figured it belonged here. Most here understand the need to vent.

It's all good. I didn't want people thinking I was "that guy" flooding the page with the same post over and over lol.

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14 hours ago, Adam said:

Is there a difference in depth between a Midland and a Bendix brake booster?

 

Also, I would like to know why you have to switch out brake pedals between power and manual? Isn't the rod connected to the brake pedal that gets pushed into the booster or master cylinder in the same position for either one? Does one offer more leverage than another?

"EDIT" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Found my answer. But now a new question. Would it make a difference if I were going to run a newer Ford style master with the plastic tank on top? Or is it still best to swap out the power brake pedal for a non power brake pedal?

 

Right now I have a power disc brake pedal installed in the car. If I bought a adjustable push rod do I really need to swap out the power brake pedal if I switch to a manual master cylinder only?

For factory style, you use power brake pedal if you use a booster. Manual pedal if you do not use a booster. But you can play with master cylinder diameter and use any pedal you want with or without booster. So, master cylinder diameter, booster or without booster and power or manual pedal are all in the same equation, and you have to match all 3 to each other to get desired brake performance; does that make sense? If you increase your master diameter, you have to increase the pedal leverage; if you add booster without changing the master diameter, you can decrease the pedal leverage and have the same pedal hardness as before. But you have to make sure that you have enough pedal travel to push the master piston before your pedal touches the firewall and also make sure you are not bottoming out the master when you only push the pedal an inch or so.

Plastic tank or metal tank master does not matter, what is important is the master cylinder diameter and fluid volumes the master pushes to front and rear when brake is applied. Find the right combination of diameter and volume; if it is plastic or metal, it will work.

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1 hour ago, aslanefe said:

For factory style, you use power brake pedal if you use a booster. Manual pedal if you do not use a booster. But you can play with master cylinder diameter and use any pedal you want with or without booster. So, master cylinder diameter, booster or without booster and power or manual pedal are all in the same equation, and you have to match all 3 to each other to get desired brake performance; does that make sense? If you increase your master diameter, you have to increase the pedal leverage; if you add booster without changing the master diameter, you can decrease the pedal leverage and have the same pedal hardness as before. But you have to make sure that you have enough pedal travel to push the master piston before your pedal touches the firewall and also make sure you are not bottoming out the master when you only push the pedal an inch or so.

Plastic tank or metal tank master does not matter, what is important is the master cylinder diameter and fluid volumes the master pushes to front and rear when brake is applied. Find the right combination of diameter and volume; if it is plastic or metal, it will work.

I currently have a brand new power disc brake pedal installed in the 70. I just woke up so I may not be all here just yet but from I'm reading I CAN leave my power disc brake pedal installed and run JUST a master with no booster correct? How do I find the best booster bore diameter for use with the power disc brake pedal?  I have seen people use the Granada master cylinder as well as the newer style with the plastic tank. It seems a lot of people like the 1" bore for JUST the manual master cylinder only. I am also noticing that people like the Granada set up because it has the locking push rod in place so it won't fall out of the MC like it might on a plastic tank MC.

 

Another issue I might have here is the fact that I have no power steering and a 5 speed in the car. With all that "portable gym" muscle I'll be building up maybe I need to stick with power brakes? I haven't driven this car in the 5 years I've owned it and as of right now the brakes are the one thing holding me back from making it driveable or at least "m,moveable".

 

 

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20200829_120042.jpg.a356fd8730381f044f7e2e345378b15d.jpg20200829_120103.jpg.1d953ab80ebf3a0eebc328837e4e5716.jpg"but from I'm reading I CAN leave my power disc brake pedal installed and run JUST a master with no booster correct?"

No!  The power and manual pedals have different leverage by mounting the pivot at different locations on the hanger. 

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I understand the difference in manual and power brake pedals. What I'm wondering tho is if I ran a master cylinder that is not a stock stock unit can I retain the power pedal? Or does it not matter either way?  I've been reading about different bore sizes and didn't know if bore size would make a difference between which pedal to use. I've been reading people using late model Ford masters and some using the Granada masters. I was wondering if there was a master I could run that would not require me to remove the power brake pedal.  I'm not keeping this car stock so appearance isn't an issue. I understand also that running a late medal master would require me to run a residual pressure valve to both front and rear lines.

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5 hours ago, Adam said:

I understand the difference in manual and power brake pedals. What I'm wondering tho is if I ran a master cylinder that is not a stock stock unit can I retain the power pedal? Or does it not matter either way?  I've been reading about different bore sizes and didn't know if bore size would make a difference between which pedal to use. I've been reading people using late model Ford masters and some using the Granada masters. I was wondering if there was a master I could run that would not require me to remove the power brake pedal.  I'm not keeping this car stock so appearance isn't an issue. I understand also that running a late medal master would require me to run a residual pressure valve to both front and rear lines.

You need to do some math based on master cylinder diameter and the leverage of the pedal. Also you need to find a master that when mounted the piston of it is inline with push rod. I believe  when you change pedals (power pedal vs non-power pedal) you lower or raise the push rod, so master's cylinder should be inline with the push rod. I do not have a direct answer for you on which master will work with power pedal and no booster as I have not done the research on avaliable master cylinders and the math for your case.

Last year I converted my factory all drum non-power 69 Grande to power front disks. Bought a kit from Pirate Jack off eBay that uses early style 4 piston disks that mount to factory 69 spindle. Kit came with power pedal, booster, master cylinder (metal) and GM style combination valve. I have about 3 inches between shock tower and master cylinder. It has a 9 inch booster that is about 4 inches thick (from firewall to master). My car is auto so it works, not the case for your T5 with cable.

On my 70 Grande that came with non-power front disks the pedal needed effort to push. I installed a booster from a Fiat without changing the master cylinder and brake pedal that reduced the effort needed to push the pedal. That was about 25 years ago and it still works fine.

If I was you, I will go to factory non-power pedal and factory master and be done if you do not want to do the math, research and trial error etc. 

According to mustangsteve's website, 69 and 70 non-power pedals are the same except the different pads for auto and manual transmission.  If you do not have a non power pedal and don't want to spend $ on it I have one I removed from my 69 with auto; send me your pedal, I will switch the pads and send you mine. And I will use your pedal on my 70 vert with auto transmission when I convert it to power brakes.

 

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I suck at math so all that scientific stuff just goes over my head.

 

I'm just going to grind the heck out of my power brake master cylinder so it doesn't rub on the shock tower and throw everything back in. I was talking to my 76 year old father about it the other day and out of all his years of being alive he's only ever replaced a master cylinder once. In my 40 years of being alive I've never replaced one. I can't actually say as tho I've ever heard of anyone replacing one on their vehicle to be honest, old or new. I'm looking to put all this BS behind me now and keep on chugging along with the original set up. I think it will be easier to drive the car with power brakes considering it's a 5 speed with manual steering. Should make things interesting  When I win the lottery I'll let someone else turn the wrenches on the thing and upgrade everything. Wishful thinking......

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