Cooling Fans

[rittenrotton 4]

To make a long story short, I'm trying to convert my cooling system to electric cooling fans. I live in the NYC area with lots of traffic and the offset 16" electric fan (without a shroud) is just not enough. I have a 302 with a champion 3 row radiator and a dual fan fan shroud (thinking that there wasn't enough clearance between a 16" fan with a fan shroud. This weekend I tried fitting (unsuccessfully) two spal  30102800 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/spu-ix-30102800?cm_mmc=ppc-google-_-search-_-brands-_-keyword&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpbbbjPTb6gIVSZyzCh0-9g07EAAYASAAEgKJgvD_BwE) but unfortunately they were still too thick. I know they make thinner fans but the thinner ones don't seem to put out much CFMs. I'm just wondering what my options are and if anyone else has had any success running high cfm dual fans and for recommendations. 

[SM69Mach 68]

Have you looked at maybe using Contour fans?  I have seen those used before and may be an option.  

 

Something like these:

https://lmr.com/item/LRS-8607F/mustang-contour-electric-fan-assembly-79-93

[rittenrotton 4]

Thanks S69Mach I have read about the contour fans but will it fit? Also what fan controller would you use?

[SM69Mach 68]

I will be honest I am not sure on either of those.  I think you can do some more research on Vintage Mustang Forum as I think more people have used them over there.  I have a generic Radiator that has side tanks so it wouldn't fit on my radiator, but with the stock tanks for the radiator I think it could fit.  

[Mike65 504]

I have them installed on a 24" radiator in my 69 Coupe. Going to the bigger radiator you have to use the top clamp.

 

https://www.cjponyparts.com/radiator-bracket-upper-mustang-1969-1970/p/RADB4/

[fvike 173]

I think the problem is the radiator. I did some research on popular Mustang radiators. While it is easy to think that a 3-row should be sufficient, it may not be the case. The tube size is the important factor in a radiator. The larger the tube, the more contact surface it has th the cooling fins.

Popular Mustang radiators has the following tube sizes: 

1. Griffin Thermal Products p/n 7-70164  has  1.25" tube size (2-row) Total tube surface diameter = 2.5"
2. Be Cool p/n 62187 has 1" tube size (2-row) Total tube surface diameter  = 2"
3. DeWitts Radiator p/n 32-1238007M has 1" tube size (2-row) Total tube surface diameter = 2"
4. Champion Radiators p/n CC338 has 0.63" tube size (3-row) Total tube surface diameter = 1.89"
5. Scott Drake p/n 338-3HF has 0.5" tube size (3-row) Total tube surface diameter = 1.5"

So, as the chart shows, a 3-row radiator does not have more cooling surface than a 2-row. It has less.  A shroud will help, and powerful fans too, but in slow traffic you get problems with charging with the fans going full bore all the time.

[69Stanger408 82]

I went with a pair of Maradyne M122K Champion Series, rated at 1,565 CFM each and 18 amps draw per. I made a custom shroud and reverse fitted them as space with the sepentine setup was tight, tad under 4". I  now have 3,130 total CFM. 

[Shep69 149]

8 hours ago, 69Stanger408 said:

I went with a pair of Maradyne M122K Champion Series, rated at 1,565 CFM each and 18 amps draw per. I made a custom shroud and reverse fitted them as space with the sepentine setup was tight, tad under 4". I  now have 3,130 total CFM. 

I used the same fans Stanger . I’m pretty happy with them and also made a shroud similar although I mounted my fans on the outside. 
I’m using the BB radiator that is standard on the A/C cars. Keeps it cool in our Aussie summers that go way over 100 . 

[Alan_Mac 48]

I have this Maradyne dual fan setup on my 351W.  It is low profile and works great.   Added a picture, Exact Fit Griffin radiator painted with eastwood radiator paint.  I still needed the fans to keep my 418w temp in check with this radiator.  http://www.maradynehp.com/mm22ks.html

[TexasEd 200]

On 7/20/2020 at 3:45 PM, fvike said:

I think the problem is the radiator. I did some research on popular Mustang radiators. While it is easy to think that a 3-row should be sufficient, it may not be the case. The tube size is the important factor in a radiator. The larger the tube, the more contact surface it has th the cooling fins.

Popular Mustang radiators has the following tube sizes: 

1. Griffin Thermal Products p/n 7-70164  has  1.25" tube size (2-row) Total tube surface diameter = 2.5"
2. Be Cool p/n 62187 has 1" tube size (2-row) Total tube surface diameter  = 2"
3. DeWitts Radiator p/n 32-1238007M has 1" tube size (2-row) Total tube surface diameter = 2"
4. Champion Radiators p/n CC338 has 0.63" tube size (3-row) Total tube surface diameter = 1.89"
5. Scott Drake p/n 338-3HF has 0.5" tube size (3-row) Total tube surface diameter = 1.5"

So, as the chart shows, a 3-row radiator does not have more cooling surface than a 2-row. It has less.  A shroud will help, and powerful fans too, but in slow traffic you get problems with charging with the fans going full bore all the time.

Has anyone used that Griffin radiator?  Sounds like what I need.

Link to Summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-7-70164?filters=year%2F1969%2Fmake%2Fford%2Fmodel%2Fmustang

Also what challenges are there with going from 20" to 24"?  Do I need a new core support and fan shroud?

[jmlay 91]

I was considering griffin when I get to that point. I found there are a few other “direct fit” aluminum radiators that are 1/2 the price. Look around before you make a decision.

[lalojamesliz 56]

 

53 minutes ago, jmlay said:

I was considering griffin when I get to that point. I found there are a few other “direct fit” aluminum radiators that are 1/2 the price. Look around before you make a decision.

With similar specs as the griffin? 

I ask because I'm also in need of a radiator for my 408w. 

[jmlay 91]

Similar https://www.428cobrajet.org/forum/index.php?topic=27613.0

[fvike 173]

19 hours ago, TexasEd said:

Has anyone used that Griffin radiator?  Sounds like what I need.

Link to Summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-7-70164?filters=year%2F1969%2Fmake%2Fford%2Fmodel%2Fmustang

Also what challenges are there with going from 20" to 24"?  Do I need a new core support and fan shroud?

I had a Griffin before my crash. It was an "Direct-fit", not the Exact-fit, so I had to dent the underside of the hood to clear the cap. I had dual slim spal fans. It cooled great, but for my rebuild I wanted a OEM appearance and a perfect fit, so I went with DeWitts with dual spal fans in a shroud. Have not run the car with that setup yet.

Only thing you need to go to the 24" radiator is  removing the drivers side block off plate, and adding the bolt in lower radiator cradles. And new hoses of course.

[TexasEd 200]

4 hours ago, fvike said:

I had a Griffin before my crash. It was an "Direct-fit", not the Exact-fit, so I had to dent the underside of the hood to clear the cap. I had dual slim spal fans. It cooled great, but for my rebuild I wanted a OEM appearance and a perfect fit, so I went with DeWitts with dual spal fans in a shroud. Have not run the car with that setup yet.

Only thing you need to go to the 24" radiator is  removing the drivers side block off plate, and adding the bolt in lower radiator cradles. And new hoses of course.

I think the one linked is the exact fit.  So hopefully no hammers are required.

 

[rittenrotton 4]

I purchased the fans and the fan controller from auto cool guy. But I am having a problem mounting the fans to my champion radiator. Anyone have any suggestions on how to create or where to purchase a mounting bracket? 

[JayEstes 173]

Ya know what.  I’m gonna go out on a limb and say the problem is not the fan- it’s the shroud.

I see a lot of folks switch to electric fans because the original fan “isn’t good enough”.  Often people ignore the shroud.  First thing I would try is put a good shroud on the original fan - it makes a HUGE difference in how much cooling you get from the fan. Look at all those electric fans that work great.  Best shrouds I have ever seen!  They close off the whole radiator area and duct ALL air to the fan blades.

If you have a fan that doesn’t have a shroud, you are probably effectively using maybe 3/4 of the total area of the fan diameter.  However, if you have a shroud that controls the airflow over all the radiator fins- you are probably getting effective cooling from 3/4 of the area of the radiator.

doing a little math based on the above assumptions:

radiator area for 18x24 radiator:

432 square inches

let’s say you have an unshrouded fan of 18in diameter on the same radiator:

Pi*(9in)^2 = 254 square inches

By not ducting ALL of the radiator area through the fan your effective cooling area is almost reduced in half!

3/4 * 432 in^2 = 324in^2

3/4 * 254 in^2 = 190 in^2

This says that non-ducted fan is less than 60% the effectivity of a ducted fan.

So, It doesn’t matter near as much whether the fan is electric or belt driven.  What matters is how much.  

First criticism folks will throw at this is “but electric fans run full speed all the time but belt driven slow down at idle - so not as much airflow”  my response to that is that an idling engine clearly needs less cooling at idle, and high rpm engines need more.  If your engine is at high speed you have fan air plus driving speed airflow- you have plenty of cooling.

So the limiting case becomes idling in a hot environment.   If you have enough cooling at idle, you will be good everywhere.  

I will put it out there for a beer bet that Shrouded fans that are belt driven produce enough cooling with stock equipment.  But if you don’t have a shroud- it probably will NOT cool efficiently enough at idle, and on hot days - you will over temp.

So to wrap it all up:  the problem is airflow through the radiator.  With no shroud, you have reduced the airflow thru the radiator to 60%-ish what you would get with a shroud, and this is the source of the problem- not whether you have fans running on electricity or on belt drive.

Jay

 

 

 

[Shep69 149]

On 8/28/2020 at 12:59 AM, rittenrotton said:

I purchased the fans and the fan controller from auto cool guy. But I am having a problem mounting the fans to my champion radiator. Anyone have any suggestions on how to create or where to purchase a mounting bracket? 

You could use the ties that go through the fins . I had a setup similar and used them and they held up fine. 

[Mike65 504]

When I mounted the same exact fans to my 24" stock radiator I trimmed off the mounting tabs on the fan shroud & used the mounting tabs on the sides of the radiator to mount a piece of aluminum angle to each side of the radiator & then I drilled 2 holes on each side of the fan shroud & bolted it to the aluminum angle.