351C Cleveland fluids and tank questions

[JamBaLam 1]

Hello all! 1969 Mustang Mach 1 with 351 Cleveland (351c) engine finally getting the TLC she deserves. She sat all winter then didn't want to fire up (had plenty of crank). Fuel gauge was never very accurate but was at E, I tapped on the underside of the fuel tank and it sounded hollow. Also found evidence of a leak around my sending unit area so I disco'd it (and out dumped the 5 gallons of fuel I put in last summer, doh! glad I had my catch pan nearby!). She's since been put on jacks for a light overhaul before summer which brings up a few questions for this Mustang newbie;

1. What fluids do these engines like best (in Colorado at 5000+ ft with hot-summers and cold-winters)? Oil, coolant, power steering and fuel specifically (is leaded fuel a thing for these?). I don't want to drain any fluids at the end of summer every year. My Haynes manual has some fluids listed but idk what it means. *edit just looked it up; "ese m2c101-c" is their recommended oil for the 351c.*

2. My fuel tank looks old (dents, surface rust on the bottom, frayed/stiff hose section, ect.) and I need a new sending unit, is it worth getting a new tank with all gaskets and sending unit included ($110-400ish online)? The fuel that I collected from the tank looked ok to me but I honestly don't know what contaminated fuel looks like nor do I have an inspection camera to see the inside. 

3. My Haynes manual leaves a lot to be desired as it covers all v8 engine options pretty generically without pictures or diagrams. Does anyone have a better resource for such things? I'm not even sure what all the things are connected to my engine belts. I'll upload a photo if someone could please tell me whats what.

It's a mess of wires under there, any idea what should be going where? Is that my power distribution center at the far left, behind the battery? 

 

Thank You!

[barnett468 418]

i would run non ethanol gas if you can get it. leaded gas is best but not necessary.

It looks like you may have extra wires that are not original that may go to a aftermarket stereo or alarm etc, and if so, you can remove those if you want. Look at stock mustang engine compartments online to see how they should look.

[JamBaLam 1]

Yep, guy who "built" it (lol) put in a type of "kill-switch" (3 switches near the radio if they aren't in the right order she will not start) to prevent theft but the radio is not functional and there's no alarm. It's kinda at the point that since it works, I'm a afraid to pull it out but I'm pretty sure that will be an inevitable step, eh?

Is it power steering on the right in red?

Water pump in the middle?

Alternator on the left?

Whats the red thing just to the right of my distributor?

Is that my power center on the far left wall?

[JamBaLam 1]

And whats the thing on the far right wall, between the strut tower and coolant reservoir?

[jmlay 80]

Red thing to the right of the distributor is the ignition coil. The silver/gray thing with the gage is a fuel pressure regulator. The rats nest of wires on the left I guess you could call your power center...

 

I would recommend sorting out the wiring, front to back, a priority. I would hate to see your car burn up because of poor wiring. Their are quality reproduction harness, or one repaired, if you wish to stay the “stock” wiring or several aftermarket options.

[barnett468 418]

2 hours ago, JamBaLam said:

Is it power steering on the right in red?

Water pump in the middle?

Alternator on the left?

Whats the red thing just to the right of my distributor?

Is that my power center on the far left wall?

1. yes.

2. yes.

3. yes.

4. ignition coil.

5. the blue box is a stock type voltage regulator.

6. the round thing above it is the stock type starter solenoid.

[JamBaLam 1]

Thanks! 

Any word on popular fluids throughout? I want to drain and replace all of them.

[barnett468 418]

4 hours ago, JamBaLam said:

Thanks! 

Any word on popular fluids throughout? I want to drain and replace all of them.

As far as oil goes, in your particular case, and due to the extreme cold winters, a couple of good choices are below, however, the synthetics can cause some engines to weep oil at the rear main seal. Wallyworld has the best prices on them. As far as oil filters go, Wix is one of the best for oem apps.

Valvoline VR-1 10w-40 Semi Synthetic.

Mobil 1 0w-40 FS - This is one of the best oils available.

As far as anti freeze goes, the old prestone green or zerex asian formula are both good, and if you let it sit for long periods i would use the zerex.

 

 

 

[JamBaLam 1]

5-6 quarts capacity for the oil?

WIX website lists two options for the 351 but don't specify if either are Windsor/Cleveland specific, help me out?

https://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/Applications.aspx?Section=1

Anything against Zerex G05 coolant? It's a Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) spec coolant that both my Jeeps require, idk exactly why they do but I have some on the shelf already. It'd also be nice to keep all vehicles on the same juice. Planning to do a cooling system flush before filling as well.

https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/antifreeze-products/g-05-antifreeze-coolant

 

And I hate to agree with you but, yep, ol' Wallyworld has killer prices on auto fluids, sometimes huge difference vs auto stores.

Thanks again!

[aslanefe 333]

Change your brake fluid too if it has been there a few years.

[RogerC 136]

On 4/23/2020 at 11:49 AM, JamBaLam said:

Yep, guy who "built" it (lol) put in a type of "kill-switch" (3 switches near the radio if they aren't in the right order she will not start) to prevent theft but the radio is not functional and there's no alarm. It's kinda at the point that since it works, I'm a afraid to pull it out but I'm pretty sure that will be an inevitable step, eh?

Is it power steering on the right in red?

Water pump in the middle?

Alternator on the left?

Whats the red thing just to the right of my distributor?

Is that my power center on the far left wall?

You should probably look into some sort of mechanics course before you tackle anything significant. Realizing your local community college won't have much of a hands on course in the near future, maybe an online course would be of benefit. I'm saying this only to help cause if you couldn't identify any of these items you probably shouldn't do the work yourself until you get some basic car knowledge under your belt.

[JamBaLam 1]

On 4/24/2020 at 6:56 PM, RogerC said:

You should probably look into some sort of mechanics course before you tackle anything significant. Realizing your local community college won't have much of a hands on course in the near future, maybe an online course would be of benefit. I'm saying this only to help cause if you couldn't identify any of these items you probably shouldn't do the work yourself until you get some basic car knowledge under your belt.

Answering any of my dozen questions would be a much more appreciated reply;

Preferred power steering fluid? Any opposition to Zerex G05 coolant? Is there an average original fuel tank lifespan? Anyone have a link to an online 351 Cleveland specific manual? 

Edited April 28, 2020 by JamBaLam
*I'm a dick

[JamBaLam 1]

I did some tidying up in there this weekend, only found 3 wires that weren't connected after wrapping all the bundles (I know I may end up having to undo lots of the wrapping but I like a clean working space and this helped organize everything). Awesome how much better things look just with a clean up, pics were taken halfway through. I got an inspection camera and peeked inside the fuel tank; it wasn't as bad as I thought but still not clean enough to satisfy. I also tested my sending unit with my miltimeter and its no good so I'll be getting an entire new tank kit from CJponyparts with brass sending unit and all gaskets (you see that one I pulled out?! way to seat the gasket previous owner!!). 

Fuel, oil and coolant have all been drained. Is there a drain plug for power steering and brake fluid or do I need to pump those out?

Thoughts on these jacking locations? How about just on the axle for the rear jacking points?

 

[Midlife 814]

Good jacking points.  For the front, put the jacks on the frame rails back towards where the rails, curved floor pans and torque boxes meet  (although the top one looks a bit rusted out under the red arrow head).

[JamBaLam 1]

1 hour ago, Midlife said:

Good jacking points.  For the front, put the jacks on the frame rails back towards where the rails, curved floor pans and torque boxes meet  (although the top one looks a bit rusted out under the red arrow head).

Thank you! That grey body photo is from the internet, not my mustang but I see what you mean.

[RogerC 136]

10 hours ago, JamBaLam said:

Answering any of my dozen questions would be a much more appreciated reply;

Preferred power steering fluid? Any opposition to Zerex G05 coolant? Is there an average original fuel tank lifespan? Anyone have a link to an online 351 Cleveland specific manual? 

I wasn't trying to be a dick. I got the impression from your post you didn't have a clue and was suggesting nicely you become familiar with some of the basics. You want cleveland specific, check out http://351c.net/board/ and https://pantera.infopop.cc/

Both are excellent resources and some of the experts are on both.

[RPM 1,190]

10 hours ago, JamBaLam said:

Answering any of my dozen questions would be a much more appreciated reply;

Preferred power steering fluid? Any opposition to Zerex G05 coolant? Is there an average original fuel tank lifespan? Anyone have a link to an online 351 Cleveland specific manual? 

This is a friendly forum. Roger has never been anything but friendly, and replied with friendly advice. 

[JamBaLam 1]

My apologies! I was in the wrong, not you sirs!

 I took it the wrong way and have been cringing about it ever since!

Thank you again!

 

 

[JamBaLam 1]

Got a better look inside my fuel tank yesterday and there is tiny spotted rust on the very top but none on the bottom. It was very minimal but I just can't get past it. Stainless steel is a bit pricey so, unless you Gents roast me about it, I'll be getting a mid-range-priced tank with a rust preventative coating.

My shopping list is growing as expected; Fuel tank kit and 15psi fuel pressure gauge (mine is broken) from CJ. Filters, fluids and tires I'll get locally. Weather got to her over the years and it may be worth replacing a few body panels but because I'm not starting there, I'll save it for last so I'm picking up a new all season car cover today.

It has no seat belts nor any hardware and I'm uncertain of the seat belts in the center console style (I do not have a center console). Even if that was original to mine I'm not a fan and would prefer something more modern/safe like a 3 point belt (at least for the front seats). Has anyone done a write up on it? CJ has lots of options but reading the reviews it seems most need a little customization to fit properly. 2ed link is the one I'm leaning towards.

https://www.cjponyparts.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?q=seat+belt+kit&product_list_limit=60

https://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-seat-belt-black-3-point-retractable-with-vintage-push-button-front-pair-coupe-fastback-1968-1973/p/SBR9B/

[barnett468 418]

you can use factory shoulder harness belts but may have to weld the nut in the roof for them unless it is already in your roof.

[1969_Mach1 333]

The main issue I found with those aftermarket 3-point retractor belt systems, when installing them in the stock locations, is the retractor is larger than stock so the front seats will not go back all the way.  At 5'-10" I couldn't use them because I have the seat back as far as it can go.  So, I use the stock lap belts and leave the shoulder harness belts clipped into the holders in the roof.  I know it's not as safe.

[JamBaLam 1]

15 hours ago, 1969_Mach1 said:

The main issue I found with those aftermarket 3-point retractor belt systems, when installing them in the stock locations, is the retractor is larger than stock so the front seats will not go back all the way.  At 5'-10" I couldn't use them because I have the seat back as far as it can go.  So, I use the stock lap belts and leave the shoulder harness belts clipped into the holders in the roof.  I know it's not as safe.

Bummer! But thanks, pretty much what I was afraid of dag nabit. Any chance you could upload a photo? Like I said, mine has absolutely nothing now so any reference I can get is good intel.