Valve adjustment question on sbf 302

[signorc 31]

Hi everyone,

Here below are 3 different ways to adjust the valve lash on a 1969 sbf 302.

Any opinion on which one to use?

They all suggest turning the push rod with thumb and index finger...... what i need to understand (being i've never done it with hydraulic lifters) is when do i stop tightning the nut on the rocker?  1. When there's no more vertical play? or 2. when the push rod becomes completely un-turnable?

Thanks for any and all advice!

[barnett468 418]

Here's one simple way to do it.

1. Forget about the " rotate the push rod" method, because it is far from precise.

2. Put number 1 cylinder on top dead center on the "Fire" stroke.

3. Put a .002" feeler gauge between the tip of the valve stem and tip of the rocker arm.

4. Tighten the nut just until there is zero play in the rocker. You can test this by trying to GENTLY lift the end of the rocker off of the feeler gauge. It will take a couple of practice tries to get the feel of it. If it takes even a tiny bit of force to remove the feeler gauge, the nut is a tiny bit too tight.

5. Once you have zero play with the feeler gauge installed, remove the gauge then tighten the nut anywhere from 2/3rds of a turn to 3/4 turn. You can typically run the lifters anywhere from 1/4 turn to 1 full turn, so it is not critical to be exact.

6. After number 1 is done, rotate the engine to the second cylinder in your firing order. If it has a stock camshaft, it will be 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8, if it has an aftermarket high performance cam, it could be either 1--5-4-2-6-3-7-8, or 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.

 

 

 

 

[signorc 31]

Thanks for the suggestion.  I already have adjusted the valves the way you suggested.  One question..... when I push on the pushrod side of the rocker, some can be pushed down and some are hard as a rock?  Shpuldn't they all be able to be pushed in a bit?

[barnett468 418]

5 hours ago, signorc said:

Thanks for the suggestion.  I already have adjusted the valves the way you suggested.  One question..... when I push on the pushrod side of the rocker, some can be pushed down and some are hard as a rock?  Shpuldn't they all be able to be pushed in a bit?

You should be able to push down on all of them unless they have oil in them. If you did not change the lifters, some will still have oil in them, and the oil will have leaked out of some of them, but neither is a problem.

 

[signorc 31]

Got it all going and it was smooth as ice.  Got it up to temp, adjsted the distributor, timing & idle screws.

Had it cool down. Strated it up again and now I have a ticking. Do i have to readjust the valves?

[signorc 31]

Foget about the last statement. I figured it out

[barnett468 418]

14 minutes ago, signorc said:

Foget about the last statement. I figured it out

Ok, what was it, an exhaust leak at the doughnut?

[signorc 31]

I removed the 2 oil filter extention tubes that run through a separate cooling radiator....and ehen reinstalling them I swapped em. No oil was going anywhere so there was the thumping.

 

[signorc 31]

I was hopeing that having changed the valve seals, head gaskets & intake manifold gaskets and cleaning out all that gunk while the int man was removed it would help with my most serious issue. When i go for a drive and the engine is at temperature.....if I should shut the engine off to get gas, or go to the supermarket or any other reason, the engine will turn but it won't start. 

It's not vapor lock and at this point it cant be the badly sealed gaskets.

Also, if I keep it on in Park. After 45 min it would shut off and won't start. 

I have to wait till the engine cools off to start it up again.

Tomorrow I'll turn it on and leave it in the sriveway and we'll see what happens.

[barnett468 418]

4 hours ago, signorc said:

I removed the 2 oil filter extention tubes that run through a separate cooling radiator....and ehen reinstalling them I swapped em. No oil was going anywhere so there was the thumping.

Are you saying that you connected the oil cooler lines incorrectly so no oil was going into the engine?

Exactly what do you mean by "thumping"?

[signorc 31]

It sounded like a valve tapping. I immediatly shut the engine off and traced my steps and figured it out.  It's all good now.  Went for a drive  and  sounded and felt right. Tomorrow i'll get the engine hot and and i hope after i shit it off it starts up.   I'll follow up tomorrow

[barnett468 418]

5 hours ago, signorc said:

I was hopeing that having changed the valve seals, head gaskets & intake manifold gaskets and cleaning out all that gunk while the int man was removed it would help with my most serious issue. When i go for a drive and the engine is at temperature.....if I should shut the engine off to get gas, or go to the supermarket or any other reason, the engine will turn but it won't start. 

It's not vapor lock and at this point it cant be the badly sealed gaskets.

Also, if I keep it on in Park. After 45 min it would shut off and won't start. 

I have to wait till the engine cools off to start it up again.

Tomorrow I'll turn it on and leave it in the sriveway and we'll see what happens.

Unless the head or intake gaskets were leaking, they would have no affect on how it starts.

Some things that cause hard re-starting are, incorrect ignition timing, engine too hot, fuel level in carb incorrect (typically too high).

Is the engine is turning over more slowly when you try to restart it?

[signorc 31]

The engine turns normal when i try to restart it.

So let me understand....if the engine starts perfectly fine all the time when it's cold, i'm assuming the timing is ok......but i could have an issue restarting it once the engine is hot?

Would the engine not start even when it's cold if the fuel level in the carb is incorrect?

The engine doesn't overheat. It just gets on the hot side. 

[dcm0123 15]

When the engine is hot and turns, does it turn at full speed?

Check all your electrical connectors for the engine controls- distributor, temperature sensor, MAF sensor etc. Disconnect them, spray both halves with contact cleaner and plug them back in. I had problems with the tempeture sensor plug and had to replace it. If you clean it and it runs good for a while, may need o replace it.

Have you replaced the ignition control module?  A known problem with Fords. Replace with a Ford OEM module only. This is the module which has about 7 contacts in the plug and maybe on your passenger side fender. Se a link below.

Can you hear your fuel pump running when hot and you first turn the key? If not, may have a problem with the fuel pump circuit.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=990377&cc=1134133&jsn=621

[barnett468 418]

1 hour ago, signorc said:

The engine turns normal when i try to restart it.

So let me understand....if the engine starts perfectly fine all the time when it's cold, i'm assuming the timing is ok......but i could have an issue restarting it once the engine is hot?

Would the engine not start even when it's cold if the fuel level in the carb is incorrect?

The engine doesn't overheat. It just gets on the hot side. 

1. Ok, the timing is likely close enough and the battery and starter etc are good.

2. Yes, and yes, but your comments suggest that it is unlikely to be related to the timing, however, if the timing is off just a little, it may start slightly easier/faster if it is set to the optimum setting for your particular engine specs.

3. Not always. A slightly high fuel level can cause starting problems when it is hot that do not occur when it is cold. This can happen for various reasons, but it is best if you can tell us exactly what carburetor you have first.

4. "Hot" engines can be hard to start, plus, it should not run hotter than any other engine unless there is some problem? Exactly what temp does it run at in traffic and on the freeway, and how hot is the weather etc?

[LoneWolf2U 136]

7 hours ago, signorc said:

I removed the 2 oil filter extention tubes that run through a separate cooling radiator....and ehen reinstalling them I swapped em. No oil was going anywhere so there was the thumping.

 

Has me thinking that another valve adjustment is in order after it has warmed up. Leaning that they are too tight now all the lifters have proper oiling.

Just my 2cts.

[signorc 31]

i have an autolite 2100 rebuilt 2 bbl carb.

today (at a comfortable 70 degrees) i left it running in the driveway for over an hour and it never stalled and it never got over 185 degrees (which I thought was great!)  I'm curious to know what it'll do in traffic in the summer at 90 degree weather.

fuel pump is working ok :)

I have 2 questions.....

1.  do i adjust the distributor timing (without the advance vacuum line hooked up) to max rpm and vacuum and then adjust the carb idle screw to get to about 600-800 rpm?

2. the vacuum advance vacuum line is now hooked up to the rear intake manifold vacuum (same place as the brake power booster vacuum and tranny vacuum).  I removed the vacuum line, plug it & set the timing......when i'm done adjusting the timing by turning the distributor, I hooked up the vacuum advance hose it went from 8 degrees btdc to 25 degrees btdc. way too high. what do i do?

[barnett468 418]

Disconnect and plug the vacuum advance line and leave it disconnected, forever and ever, or until further notice.

I wrote the following for people to use as a guide to check the initial timing and timing curve, however, if you have a stock, or near stock camshaft, your initial/idle timing should not be higher than 10 degrees.

1. Disconnect and plug the vacuum hoses to the dist if you have any.

2. Start your timing at 8 degrees BTDC.

3. With the engine idling, advance the timing 2 degrees . Listen for an increase in rpm and irregular/rough running.

4. If the rpm increases and it still runs smoothly, reset the idle speed then increase the timing 2 more degrees and check for the same things.

5. Retard the timing to 8 degrees at idle.

6. Reset the idle speed.

7. Recheck the timing. It should still be at 8 degrees.

8. Increase the rpm to around 2000 and  advance the timing 4 degrees . Listen for an increase in rpm and irregular/rough running.

9. If the rpm increases and it still runs smoothly, reset the engine speed to 2000 rpm then increase the timing 2 more degrees and check for the same things.

POST RESULTS

 

[signorc 31]

when you say "reset the idle speed" (#4 & #6 on your list) and "reset the engine speed" (#9 on your list) are you mean to adjust the idle screw on the side of the carb?

in #8 how would you like me to increase the rpm to 2000?

[barnett468 418]

36 minutes ago, signorc said:

when you say "reset the idle speed" (#4 & #6 on your list) and "reset the engine speed" (#9 on your list) are you mean to adjust the idle screw on the side of the carb?

in #8 how would you like me to increase the rpm to 2000?

1. yes, you can do 4. 6. 8. and 9 that way if it is easier.

2. I hold the throttle open by hand as i turn the distributor, but that an be a bit difficult for some people, so you can screw the idle screw in until the rpm is around 2000, or wedge something between the screw to increase the engine speed.

[signorc 31]

i'll give it a shot tomorrow. thanks for the help

 

[signorc 31]

Good morning from sunny and springlike temperatures lock down Italy.

I tried setting the timing by turning the dist cap to 8degrees btdc but the issue is that the timing is not steady with the timing light.

When i get it to around 8degrees and advance the distributor by literally a hair it jumps to 20degrees at an obvious higher rpm.

What to do what to do on a Sunday lock down afternoon?

[aslanefe 346]

1 hour ago, signorc said:

Good morning from sunny and springlike temperatures lock down Italy.

I tried setting the timing by turning the dist cap to 8degrees btdc but the issue is that the timing is not steady with the timing light.

When i get it to around 8degrees and advance the distributor by literally a hair it jumps to 20degrees at an obvious higher rpm.

What to do what to do on a Sunday lock down afternoon?

How are your vacuum and mechanical advances? If they are not set correct, a slight rpm and/or vacuum increase will advance the timing.

[signorc 31]

The vacuum advance line on the distributor was removed and plugged.

The mecchanical advance works ok cause as I rev the engine the timing increases. It's the original autilite distributor and carb

[barnett468 418]

ok, did you set it to 8 degrees then lower the idle back down to where it should be?

once it jumps to 20 degrees, the idle should increase, but if you turn the idle screw out, it should lower the idle back down and the timing should then be at 8 degrees.

you may have weak advance springs, or a broken advance spring in the distributor or vacuum advance module.

i have had this same problem of the timing suddenly going high after I advance the timing just a little.