What should I fix first?

[KMD88 2]

Hey everyone,

I could use some Mustang wisdom here. Just recently purchased my '69, and giving it a ton of love. I just had it evaluated by a pretty reputable classic mechanic in the area, and they provided me a breakdown of what needs to be fixed (with prices attached).

What I'm really trying to decide on is what is mandatory "right now" and what can wait. The car has been driving fine for 6 months, but I don't want to push things to the point of breaking down.

If you only had $10k to spend, what would you prioritize? Also, do you feel these prices are fair?

Full list is below. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

Labor	Cost	Parts	Cost
Estimate to install performance suspension and handling package including upper control arms, front springs and shocks, lower control arms,  Custom adjustable front sway bar front sway bar rear springs and shocks . Export brace and Monte Carlo bar. Sublet labor wheel alignment Line total 4800.00	1620.00             195.00	620 lb front springs Spring insulators ASPC upper control arms 4.5 leaf rear springs U bolt kit Lowering blocks 15/16 adj frt sway bar Sway bar bushing kit Custom heim joint sway bar end link kit Bilstein front shocks Bilstein rear shocks Front shock spacers Misc parts… Inner tie rod ends Outer tie rod ends Adjuster sleeves Idler arm Rear spring shackle kits Spring perches Misc parts… Export brace Mounting plate Monte carlo bar	155.00 12.00 700.00   295.00 85.00 60.00 350.00 38.00 95.00   325.00 250.00 12.00 75.00 60.00 50.00 20.00 75.00 40.00   60.00 75.00 65.00 40.00 34.00
Suspension repairs needed if handling package not installed. Found both upper control arm ball joints have excessive play, spring perch rubber bushings dry rotted, and spring insulators rotted. Recommend remove and replace both upper control arms, spring perches, and spring insulators. Found idler arm has excessive bushing play. Recommend remove and replace either arm. Found driver-side outer tie rod boot torn. Tie rod appears to be original, is dry, and is non-greaseable. Recommend remove and replace driver side outer tie rod. Found rear leaf spring bushings dry rotted and cracking. Found shackle bushings dry rotted and cracking. Also found passenger side leaf spring clamp broken. Recommend remove and replace leaf springs and shackle bushings. (extra time due to traction bars) Sublet wheel alignment Line total 2350.00	1500.00                                           195.00	Upper control arms Spring perches Insulators Idler arm Tie rod Leaf springs Shackle kits	230.00 60.00 12.00 75.00 25.00 200.00 40.00
Found steering ram cylinder boot melted against header. Steering ram requires a drop bracket for header clearance. Recommend remove and replace steering ram boot and bushings. Also recommend remove and replace factory type steering ram frame bracket with aftermarket drop bracket. Found power steering hose insulator oil soaked and worn. Recommend remove and replace power steering hose insulator. Found power steering pump leaking. Recommend  replace power steering pump. Line total 1075.00	675.00	Steering ram boot kit Reinforced Steering ram drop brkt Ps hose insulator Reman ps pump paint	16.95   185.00 8.00 175.00 12.00
BRAKES Inspected master cylinder and found brake fluid is dirty and contaminated. Recommend flush and bleed brake system Found front rubber brake hoses rotting, cracked, and old. Recommend remove and replace front brake hoses. Found rear rubber brake hose rotting, cracked, and old. Recommend remove and replace rear brake hose. . Inspected rear brakes and found uneven brake shoe wear with the primary shoes having more wear than the secondaries. This is possibly due to stuck brake cylinders or stuck brake adjusters. Found rear brakes contaminated with rear axle gear oil. Measured both rear brake drums and found passenger side brake drum within spec to remachine. Found driver side rear brake drum oversized and cannot be re-machined. Also found both rear brake cylinders seeping brake fluid. Recommend to replace rear brake drums as a set. The rear brake backing plates are grooved and will need to be welded and resurfaced to insure proper rear brake operation. Recommend disassemble and clean rear brakes, reassembling with new parts.   Line total 1600.00	1285.00	Brake fluid Front brake hoses Rear brake hose Brake shoes Brake drums Brake hardware kit Rear wheel cylinders	16.00 77.90 34.95 40.00 90.00 16.00 40.00
ENGINE AND TRANS Found car has 2 core radiator installed without a shroud. Also found motor has five blade flex fan installed. Inspected radiator and found upper tank full of debris. Recommend upgrade to larger 3 core radiator and install fan shroud. Recommend installing filter in upper radiator hose to catch debris.  Also recommend upgrading cooling fan to a non-flex six blade fan. Recommend replace thermostat as PM to insure it has the correct part. Line total 1330.00 Inspected spark plugs and found them gapped incorrectly at .030 inches. Spark plugs appear to be okay at this time. Recommend re-gap spark plugs to factory spec. (.035 inches) and reinstall. Line total 270.00 Found air filter dirty and worn. Recommend remove and replace air filter.    Line total 15.00 Found throttle cable retainer broken at carburetor bracket. Recommend remove and replace throttle cable. Line total 142.00 Found motor has excessive rubber fuel hose spliced into steel fuel line from pump to carburetor with filter installed. Recommend remove and replace steel pump to carburetor fuel line. Recommend install fuel filter ahead of fuel pump. Line total 316.00 Found intake manifold leaking oil at rear seal and seeping oil at front seal. Recommend reseal intake manifold. R&I ac compressor and brackets for access. Valve covers will need to be removed in order to reseal intake manifold. Recommend reinstalling valve covers with new gaskets and correct bolts.   Line total 895.00 Found oil pan gaskets seeping oil. Recommend reseal oil pan and rear main seal. Line total 952.00 Found motor mounts cracked and sagging. Recommend remove and replace motor mounts. Line total 320.00 Found engine balancer rubber insulator rotted and cracking. Recommend remove and replace engine balancer. Line total 420.00 Found AC belt old and cracking. Recommend remove and replace AC belt. Line total 60.00 Found transmission cooler lines damaged and have rubber hose splices. Recommend remove and replace transmission cooler lines. Line total 390.00 Found transmission has improvised inspection plate installed. Recommend install correct inspection plate and hardware. Line total 88.00 Found transmission mount oil soaked, spongy, and tearing. Recommend remove and replace transmission mount. Line total 125.00 Found rear axle pinion seal seeping gear oil. Recommend remove and replace pinion seal and change diff fluid. Line total 270.00 Found both rear axle seals seeping gear oil into rear brakes. Recommend remove and replace axle seals and inner /outer flange gaskets. Line total 300.00 The heater hoses are incorrectly routed and are very close to the headers. Recommend to replace the heater hoses and re route them correctly. Line total 210.00	675.00                               162.00               nc       102.00           270.00                   810.00                 875.00         270.00           270.00           40.00         340.00           68.00           108.00         216.00           270.00           135.00	Radiator 6 blade Fan Gano Filter Fan shroud Fan shroud hardware Thermostat Gasket RTV sealer Air filter Throttle cable Fuel pipe Fuel filter Fuel hose Hose clamps Intake gasket Vc gaskets Oil pan gasket Rear main seal Motor mounts Balancer Ac belt Trans cooler lines Oil press sender Trans mount Inspection plate Pinion seal 3 gear oil 2 Axle seals 4 Flange gaskets Valve cover bolts Heater hose kit Hose clamps Coolant Distilled water	376.00 75.00 50.00 79.00 10.00 28.00 2.50 12.00 15.00 40.00 28.00 7.00 6.00 5.00 32.00 20.00 52.00 25.00 50.00 150.00 20.00 50.00 28.95 15.00 20.00 18.00   20.00 8.00 18.00 65.00 5.00 16.00 6.00
ELECTRICAL AND MISC Found driver side inner highbeam headlight non-op. Recommend replace both inner headlights. Found driver side outer highbeam light non-op. Recommend remove and replace both outer headlights. Found reverse lights non-op. Needs electrical diagnosis time. Found AC non-op. Needs diagnosis.    Found all 8 seat plugs missing. Install.   Line total 815.00	108.00       108.00     270.00     270.00   nc	4 headlamps 8 seat plugs	48.00 8.00
Customer requested estimate to replace door weather strips. They appear to be in good condition and are not needed at this time.
Customer requested estimate to replace the roof rail weather strips Line total 1484.00	1350.00	Roof rail w strip kit Wstrip adhesive Glass alignment clips	106.00 12.00 16.00
Customer states clock is inoperative. Recommend to remove and replace clock internals with updated components Line total 605.00	475.00	Clock kit	130.00
Customer states odometer is inoperative and request to install LED lights in instrument panel . Necessary to remove speedometer assy and replace with a good used replacement unit.  Fuel gauge will be tested and possibly be replaced during this repair. Line total 815.00	475.00	LED lights Used speedometer Used fuel gauge Prt circ board Elec cvr	45.00 100.00 65.00 85.00 38.00
Customer request to install manual retractable antenna. Requires a bracket to be fabricated for the lower mounting point inside the fender. Line total 370.00	340.00	antenna assy	30.00
Customer request to refurbish steering wheel. Necessary to remove and install a loaner wheel. Sublet steering wheel for refurbish. Will take approximately 6 months to complete. This will also correct the horn operation concern.  Line total 1250.00	135.00	Refurbish steering wheel Horn switch Horn pad assy Shipping	650.00 139.00 245.00 60.00
Customer request to address the rattling in the rear seat area. Recommend to replace the rear seat bumpers and the trap door bumpers. We can also add some foam tape around the trap door opening and on the rear seat trim to help reduce the noise. It should be noted that squeaks and rattles from the fold down seat and trap door are inherent in this vehicle and cannot be 100 percent remedied. Driving with the rear seat in the folded down position will help to reduce the noise.  Line total 445.00	405.00	Seat bumpers Trap door bumpers Foam tape	20.00 8.00 10.00
Customer request estimate to install Dakota Digital Instrument cluster with analog gauges including matching clock Line total 2675.00	1620.00	Dakota Digital VHX Dakota digital clock Misc parts…	795.00 150.00 100.00
Customer states windows do not roll up all the way. Checked and found the right window is working fine. The left window will require disassembly and inspection to determine needed repairs. Line total 270.00	270.00
NOTE: The vehicle has previously had significant repairs and/or replacement done to the front aprons, shock towers and core support, likely related to crash repairs. This may cause some fitment issues with some components requiring additional repair work and/or fitment time.
Estimated Labor	$	Estimated Parts	$

[Mach1 Driver 560]

 

 

 

Much of our old classics can be repaired with fairly basic tools like wrenches, sockets and screwdrivers. If you are mechanically inclined at all, you could get the manuals and do most of the work yourself. There are videos, books and lots of help on more than a few Mustang forums. Join a Mustang club and get to know the people who work on their cars.You would save lots of cash and have the satisfaction of doing it yourself, and probably doing it better than most shops. You could still pay to have those things done you don't feel comfortable doing. 10 grand at a shop doesn't go far on these beasts. It may seem daunting but many many people do their own suspension work. Its not rocket science. Look at your list- $475 for a clock? Come on, you could replace that, fix a rattle in the back seat, and adjust a window. I'll bet you could do almost all of that list, make friends and get lots of help here. Get your hands dirty!

If you must pay a shop for all these things then prioritize- above all else the car must be safe so do the brakes and steering first. The speedometer is fairly important but replacing the cable and perhaps the speedo is far less expensive than installing a Dakota Digital- although I must admit I lust after one myself.

[1969vert 55]

Brakes and steering first here also...

[smh00n 87]

Another one for brakes and steering.

New standard stuff is all I would use (and am using)

The hourly rate is what I'd look at. To redo the front and rear with stock stuff I reckon a bloke by himself would do that in 2 days so a 'pro' should take less than that. In our part of the world mechanics would be getting around $80-100 an hour so that's 15 hours.

If you're halfway handy you could have a go yourself. They are a pretty simple suspension set up and you do 1 side at a time so you can refer to the other if you get lost.

[barnett468 418]

Well are those prices parts and labor?

$340.00 for heater hoses?

I would post exactly what radiator they are suggesting because it is likely pos small tube chinese one. I have a real 3 row large tube original style rad here that has a new us made core for sale.

[Midlife 814]

What to fix first?

Make sure your checkbook and/or savings account is 3x larger than what you think it needs to be.

[JayEstes 172]

Here's my take - some of that may be reasonable and some of it definitely is not.  For instance, it's definitely not a good recommendation to put in performance suspension & handling for $5K.  That's NOT mandatory.  You can get new stock UCA's for lass than $50 per side (that's a lot cheaper than $350/side).

Don't put in 620lb springs up front unless you want it to ride like a covered wagon.  I think stock springs are 300 lb/in.  Don't lower it, but instead:   The top 3 upgrades for front suspension improvement are:

1. Redrill your shock towers to do the "Shelby/Arning drop" (if not already done) with new UCA's ($20 template + $100 for both UCA's)
2. Put in a 1in" sway bar.  (best bang for the buck I think and makes the car safer to drive) $140
3. New KYB Gas Adjust shocks (Maybe $100 for both)

After that, you'll need Tie rod bushings ($40ish), stock perches ($40), new spring seats ($10), some Tie-rod work

So that's like $400, and it will drive fine (not like a racecar, but you won't shatter your teeth going over the railroad tracks either)

On the rear, I would not buy new springs unless they can show you they are bent or ruined.  Just New KYB gas adjust shocks and see how it is ($100), maybe new leaf spring bushings if she's rattly.  Since there are traction bars, this will be more work.

So that's maybe $200 on the rear, and most all the big stuck on suspension for like $600-$700 in parts.  If you do this work yourself (only thing really dangerous in compressing front springs).  If you want to pay to have this done, $1500 is probably not outrageous, but I wouldn't buy new leafs. if they say they are "shot" make them show you how. 

Brakes are most important:

replace all the rubber brake lines, 3x maybe ~$50 each.  The following statement however - makes NO SENSE to me: "Found rear brakes contaminated with rear axle gear oil."  I have no idea how this could happen.  Sound like BS to me, and I would ask about it.  These systems are not connected, and I can't see how they could be thru parts failure, so I call BS.  Get a new drivers drum if you can't find someone to machine it.  New pads (cheap) and get new rear cylinders (cheap).  My brake backing plates are grooved some, but still work ok - weld and remachine is a fair bit of expensive work, and I'd try it without doing that.

They don't mention the brake distribution block or the proportioning valve.  The prop valve should be taken off and have a new seal kit put it - virtual certainty it needs that ($35 for parts).

---

Engine:  That's an expensive radiator.  I bought a 3-row copper for about $350.  You can get a thermostat for $5,  you probably don't need a fuel pipe - I wouldn't do that.  If you flush out the fuel tank, there is no need to move the fuel filter ahead of the fuel pump (non stock).  New rubber connections ($10), New fuel pump $30, new filter $5.  That's all that's required.

If they can show you the leaks on the manifold you should fix it.  And you can look for this yourself, by simply wiping off the front and back and driving it around.  If it's leaking oil you should be able to see it.  personally, I don't need to remove the Ac compressor to work on the intake so - my opinion - not required.

Your oil pan probably is leaking.  Do you need to spend $1000 to fix it?  NO.  This is a hard job to get the old one off and put on a new one that doesn't leak, but honestly, you can keep the oil filled while you save some $'s to have it fixed later for cheaper than that.

Fix the motor mounts.  If they are original, they probably are cracked.  $320 seems like an ok price to do that.  Engine balancer MAY be needed.- if you can't get it to run.  But if it runs/timing is OK, I'd do this later.

For the love of God, do the all the AC/PS/alternator/fan belts yourself - any person driving a 69 oughta be able to do the belts.

No idea on the improvised trans inspection plate, but it's probably fine (it's a piece of sheet metal to keep crap out of the flex-plate starter engage area).  look at it yourself and see how bad it is.

Trans mount is good chance it is bad.  $125 seems reasonable

I'd note the rear axle seals as something to watch, and do them later.  That alone is like $300.

buy your own heater hoses. $340 is outrageous unless he is putting Stainless braid on them.

Elec:

I don't know what he means "seat plugs" but they are dang expensive.  Fix the electrical that's broken and nothing else.  he's only giving you an AC diagnosis, which means there is another $1500 of cost to get the AC going probably.  Can wait.  Two windows at 60mph is usually okay for a lot of the US.

Body:

If the roof drip rails are leaking, that can allow body rust which you don't want.  you are looking at a lot of cost that may affect the paint.  so this is expensive.  Depending on the quality level of your paint, this may or may not be worth it.  Just do whatever to avoid rust.

OMG - do NOT spend $600 on the damn clock - buy a wrist watch!  $35!!!  worst case - pull it yourself and mail it off to be fixed.

Dash: LED light kit and printed circuit panel is all you need.  your fuel gauge either works or doesn't.  If it doesn't, I would change the sender in the tank for $30, and not buy a new gauge (which is probably fine, but inaccurate - they all are BTW).

Steering wheel can probably wait at $1250!!! Good lord!. 

Fix the windows.  those mechanisms probably need an overhaul - they are cheap systems, and if not adjusted properly, can bind and be really frustrating.

UGH.  That's a lot of stuff.  I'm not a fan of having other dudes do my car work, and so I don't know about labor costs.  Anything over $100hr is questionable.  $80 may be reasonable.  My costs above are for parts, not labor (all of mine is free, so I on'y see parts costs).

This stuff is not that hard to fix yourself.  It just takes time.  If you have more $ than time - this shop may not be that bad, but there is some questionable stuff  in here - other stuff looks reasonable.  it's a mixed bag.  

Good luck.

 

[grendi 16]

1 hour ago, JayEstes said:

Here's my take - some of that may be reasonable and some of it definitely is not.  For instance, it's definitely not a good recommendation to put in performance suspension & handling for $5K.  That's NOT mandatory.  You can get new stock UCA's for lass than $50 per side (that's a lot cheaper than $350/side).

Don't put in 620lb springs up front unless you want it to ride like a covered wagon.  I think stock springs are 300 lb/in.  Don't lower it, but instead:   The top 3 upgrades for front suspension improvement are:

1. Redrill your shock towers to do the "Shelby/Arning drop" (if not already done) with new UCA's ($20 template + $100 for both UCA's)
2. Put in a 1in" sway bar.  (best bang for the buck I think and makes the car safer to drive) $140
3. New KYB Gas Adjust shocks (Maybe $100 for both)

........

Make sure you don't buy cheap chinese UCA, I got the scott drake 4-rivet ones after one of my china crap UCAs locked up after 2 years and so far, they work.
If I would buy today, I might also consider dynacorn #3631JL UCAs

[KMD88 2]

Thank you all for your advice. I've been going through it all and making notes. Big shout-outs to JayEstes and Mach1Driver for their in-depth and no-holds-barred explanations. That's what I needed.

I'd love to start working on the car myself, and I've joined the Mustang club in my area. Unfortunately, I'm a little hampered by space at the moment (my garage is really small...can't even open both car doors while in it) and I travel for work and have been unable to go to meetings. I'm hoping to start attending them regularly in September and make some new pals who can show me the ropes.

I'm a pretty decent fixer-upper, but I don't have any mechanic experience. I do want to learn though. With that said, I'm going to go to the mechanic on Wednesday and talk over everything they spotted/estimated. I'll see what I can fix myself vs what I should leave to the experts. You guys have already provided me a head-start there with your feedback.

Once again, really appreciate all the feedback. It really helped. 

[barnett468 418]

1 hour ago, KMD88 said:

I've joined the Mustang club in my area.

Once again, really appreciate all the feedback. It really helped. 

What is your area?

You didn't answer any of my questions, therefore I and others can't answer some of yours.

[KMD88 2]

On 8/17/2019 at 3:54 PM, barnett468 said:

Well are those prices parts and labor?

$340.00 for heater hoses? 

I would post exactly what radiator they are suggesting because it is likely pos small tube chinese one. I have a real 3 row large tube original style rad here that has a new us made core for sale. 

The prices are parts and labor.

I'm in the Los Angeles area.

[barnett468 418]

20 minutes ago, KMD88 said:

The prices are parts and labor.

I'm in the Los Angeles area.

Well if the price for changing the heater hoses is $340.00, they are high on something.

$700.00 for parts and labor for the upper control arms once they already have the front springs off is laughable unless they are 24k gold plated..

$350.00 for parts and labor for a front sway bar, lol.

$75.00 for parts and labor for an export brace and $40.00 for a monte carlo bar are actually way too low unless they are installing ones that only costs $10.00.

$475.00 for a clock and labor, OMG!

 

[barnett468 418]

What is the name of this shop?

[KMD88 2]

5 minutes ago, barnett468 said:

What is the name of this shop?

Mustangs Etc.

[barnett468 418]

3 minutes ago, KMD88 said:

Mustangs Etc.

If you are seriously considering having this shop do anything on your car, I strongly suggest they give you a separate price for every single item AND the exact brand and part number for each pat and the exact labor costs. The labor could be bulked together where several items in the same area are being changed at the same time like the front suspension. Then post that info and we can tell you for certain if you are getting hosed or not, but from what it looks like, you may very well be.

 

[danno 128]

Set your priorities. I did that 30 years ago, and still working on items.  Brakes and steering first.  Some of the prices and items seem way out of line.   Get it driving safely first, and then work on the smaller items.  Repair things as they break. 

[jeff69 10]

I’d KISS. 

Check out https://opentrackerracing.com/  he’s got a lot of “problem solver” OE parts.

Definitely brakes (front disk upgrade), steering & suspension. If you don’t have the skills and or space shop around.

I’d list it in priority order and go as far as the budget allows.

Coming from a guy that is dealing with the “Snow Ball” of building a car.......

 

Good Luck!