Front suspension ideas...

[Jan 12]

Hi Mystang

I am on the same mission as you, trying to get my car to handle well and not wonder all over the road.
I have done the UCA drop and the roller spring perch and I didn't notice any substantial improvement.
What did make a huge difference was installing a strut suspension and rack and pinion steering.
The main problem with the Mustang front suspension is that the scrub radius is too big and not enough caster.
The picture below is Fatman's strut, http://www.fatmanfab.com/product/1964-½-1966-ford-mustang-strut-ifs-conversion-kit

However I made my own with BC coilovers for Volvo V70 (I live in Sweden), I kept the lower control arms and strut rods. All I did was to fabricate a bracket to attach the coilovers to the original spindle and bolted it to shock tower using the original holes. I did remove the guide plate spot welded underneath the shock tower. I am running Wilwood brakes so I was able to use the holes for the original brake callipers to secure the bracket. Another advantage is the ease of adjusting ride hight.

This modification decreased the scrub radius from about 80mm to 40mm. I can highly recommend this mod.

Another and easier way of decreasing the scrub radius is to use a wheel with more back spacing.

Although I now can sit and drive with one hand on the steering I am not yet satisfied so this winter I am installing a IRS from a 2015 Mustang.
I am not giving up until my Mustang drives like a modern car.

If you are lowering the UCA make sure you move them back as far as possible to increase caster at the same time.

Good luck

 

[Mach1 Driver 560]

14 hours ago, Mystang said:

This evening I replaced the 235/60/15 front tires on my car with the original 205/70/14  tires. I found the handling and driving characteristics much improved.

That's interesting, the 205/70/14 should be 1.181" narrower and .098" taller. I found this explanation of what should happen with taller side walls:  A taller, more compliant sidewall has an easier time keeping the contact patch on the ground. With a wider patch and more grip, the car rolls more, lifting the inner part of the tread off the pavement and suddenly reducing grip. So, without retuning the suspension, handling can actually suffer. So what do you actually notice- a softer ride?

[buening 63]

Mystang, what specs were your car aligned to?  The issues you describe sound more like an alignment issue but I could be wrong.  Opentracker has some good spec recommendations:  https://opentrackerracing.com/technical/

 

[JET 445 43]

13 hours ago, Jan said:

Hi Mystang

I am on the same mission as you, trying to get my car to handle well and not wonder all over the road.
I have done the UCA drop and the roller spring perch and I didn't notice any substantial improvement.
What did make a huge difference was installing a strut suspension and rack and pinion steering

 

What you have done is almost the same as the front suspension from RRS.

[Mystang 11]

The car has driven well   I'm feeling the car react less dramatically to the changes in road condition (patches, seams, sunken/settled road edges)   I like to drive side roads with less traffic. 

  I think the lighter weight of the smaller tires may be part of this effect.  

  I'm going to try the UCA lowering and roller spring perch option (relatively cheap and easy) as both are said to maintain a more consistent contact patch. I think this should reduce dissimilar steering force between the front wheels. Then I'll realign to the specs that Daze gives on there web site.

   Easy enough to get done this coming week, I think.

[Mystang 11]

    I completed the UCA drop and roller spring perch install with little noticeable improvement. 

    With the 235/60/15 tires on the front I was still less than happy, but after mounting a new set of 205/70/15, I found the drivability to be much better. I further found that the car drove better as I reduced air pressure incrementally till I reached 25 PSI (front only)

    I'm happy with the steering and handling but will almost certainly add the power steering over the winter.

    

[barnett468 418]

On 10/11/2019 at 7:32 PM, Mystang said:

The car has driven well   I'm feeling the car react less dramatically to the changes in road condition (patches, seams, sunken/settled road edges)   I like to drive side roads with less traffic. I think the lighter weight of the smaller tires may be part of this effect.  

I'm going to try the UCA lowering and roller spring perch option (relatively cheap and easy) as both are said to maintain a more consistent contact patch.

The tire weight has virtually no effect on tracking, but the width and the shape of the tire does. Narrower tires and tires with more of a curved tread face follow irregularities in the road less.

These have nearly no affect on how much of the tire contacts the road.

[1969_Mach1 333]

19 hours ago, Mystang said:

    I completed the UCA drop and roller spring perch install with little noticeable improvement. 

    With the 235/60/15 tires on the front I was still less than happy, but after mounting a new set of 205/70/15, I found the drivability to be much better. I further found that the car drove better as I reduced air pressure incrementally till I reached 25 PSI (front only)

    I'm happy with the steering and handling but will almost certainly add the power steering over the winter.

    

I have also done the UCA drop on my Mach 1.  But not for any type of wandering issues.  The UCA drop is to reduce the camber change as the wheel travels throughout it's up and down travel maintaining more tire contact with the road.  It has nothing to do with wandering issues.  I use the stock tire size on my Mach1, 215-70 14 on the original wheels.  I have never had any type of wandering issues.

[barnett468 418]

The shelby drop does not allow much more of the tire to contact the road at all, because unless one is running 45 series tires etc, the tire flexes which allows the thread to stay in contact with the road. The main purpose of the shelby drop is to change the roll center of the car, not to make more of a tire contact the road.

"the real improvement comes from the change in the geometry of the suspension. The “roll center” of the suspension is raised, which causes the front suspension to resist “body roll”, which makes the suspension feel, and act, as though a larger sway bar were installed."

 

If one wants the tread of the tire to stay as square to the ground as possible, equal length arms with the same mounting spacing in and out must be used, because this forms a type of parallelogram, however, this system maintains the most tire contact in a turn when there is little to no body roll.

 

[1969_Mach1 333]

I was not aware of that.  I guess I learned something new today.

[Darkman 2]

Although mentioned early on in this post the Total Control Products coil over conversion kit looks like a very well thought out bolt in kit. I plan to use it with a one inch drop spindle on my 1969 Mach 1. That should make it handle much better.

[RPM 1,190]

On 10/7/2019 at 1:03 PM, Mystang said:

I'm disappointed with the ride on anything less than prefect road surfaces. Far too much wandering and correction on the secondary roads that offer the best fall viewing. 

   I do all of my own wrench turning, but I'm ready to turn this over to a pro.  What am I missing?

   How much would a roller perch eliminate wander from disparate road surfaces? 

   

Roller perches won't help a bit for wandering.

My opinion is any shade tree mechanic with half a brain can do a better job on their own car than most shops. Stick with it and do your own work. 

You haven't mentioned your steering box. A 50 year old box has caused many a Mustang to wander. I recently tore down 2 stock boxes and found no useable grease in them. What grease was in there, was hard and brittle. The bearings were toast, and one box had mucho rust damage. I don't know how the ball bearings circulated without grease. I will never run a stock unrebuilt box. Chockostang has quality rebuilt boxes ready to ship. Or you can rebuild your own with his kit.

Front tire toe in also causes a car to wander. I played around with my toe setting from toe in to toe out. Toe in is much more stable. Toe out gives the spindles more Ackerman and allows the car to turn in better. This gives you better handling on turns, but the front will move around more when braking and on uneven roads. 

I'd check your steering box for worn parts. And get that thing rebuilt!

[Mystang 11]

I put on a NEW box in  shortly after I put the car on the road.