428 or 351w-pros & cons

[rr03cobra 3]

I have a 69 Fastback  6 cylinder that was converted to a 351W.  I have a 428 out of a tbird that I'm thinking about replacing the 351w with. I'm looking for suggestions and experiences in doing the swap or should I just stroke the 351 to a 408?  Its been a while since I've owned an older mustang and they all had Windsors in them. Any suggestions on exhaust and headers would be greatly appreciated also. 

Modifications-Unisteer rack and pinion for big block (on order), TCP rack and pinion, TCP subframe, 9" small bearing rear, MP disc brakes (front and back), Tremec TKO 5 speed (waiting to order until I figure out which engine).

 

Thx

Rich

[Mike65 512]

IMHO I would stroke the 351 to 408. The 428 would be very cool, but the engine would be very hard to change the spark plugs on & will make the Mustang very nose heavy.

[barnett468 418]

yup, plus if you use headers on a 428, it will likely take you 8 hours to get all the header bolts in.

you can stroke the 351 to 418. either way, you can get 500 plus hp out of a stroked 351 if you have good heads. trick flows from summit racing are the best bang for the buck.

you will be limited on intake manifold height with the 351.

[Hux 45]

428 FE is cooler than a 408 Windsor lol

 

 

[Brian Conway 279]

+1

[mustangstofear 608]

I would  go with the  351, we always  stroke  them to a 427. Parts are cheaper and a lot easier to  work on if you're  keeping  the shock towers.  We  use JBA off road headers, and they fit  great.

[1969_Mach1 335]

If you starting from a 6 cylinder car, I would use a 351W or a stroked 351W based motor.  If it was an original 428 car, then stick with that.  Be realistic about how you want to use the car when deciding how to build the motor.  Often as horse power goes up, reliability and longevity goes down.

[mustangstofear 608]

The  big question is  how much  HP  do you want and what's your  budget. I  just priced a stock  rebuild for a  customer in the UAI at 3,000 with 325 -350 HP. This was with an aluminum  intake and tweaking the  stock heads .

[Mach1 Driver 612]

12 hours ago, mustangstofear said:

 We  use JBA off road headers, and they fit  great.

I have seen you say that repeatedly, but unfortunately JBA only uses descriptions and not part numbers when describing their products, and nothing matches "off road", so unless you are a lot more descriptive, then what you are using will remain a secret. Ya gotta admit that "off road" and "351W  69 Mustang" don't seem to go together.

[mustangstofear 608]

We have the part  # we use  all the time.

[mustangstofear 608]

My mistake, there BBK off road. I have the part # ar work,  but I have posted it in the  past. 

[rr03cobra 3]

thanks for all the info. this is exactly what I'm looking for.  I'm looking to get 430-500 hp and my budget is around $5k

[barnett468 418]

3 hours ago, rr03cobra said:

thanks for all the info. this is exactly what I'm looking for.  I'm looking to get 430-500 hp and my budget is around $5k

What gear ratio?

How will the car be driven the majority of the time?

What elevation will it usually be driven at?

How often will you drive it?

Do you want more low end power or do you want to rev it out far?

Do you mind a moderately rough idle or prefer it to be more on the smoother side? Again, the fi will likely limit your cam choices some but you will still easily get the hp you want.

 

[rr03cobra 3]

rebuilding the 9" small bearing so I haven't picked a gear ratio yet, going to add a TKO 5 speed. a lot of the highways are 75mph so maybe 3:50??

its going to be a street cruiser that will be driven on the highway also. No racing at the track but I do like to go fast. lol

I live in Denver and will be driving it in the mountains also

weekend driver,

I would like a more high revving car since I'm used to that in my cobra, but this isn't necessary

I would like a little lope but nothing too major. I'm willing to sacrifice horsepower for drivability and reliability. 

I've got some time to get all the parts needed. I just need to figure out which way I'm going to go so I can purchase the transmission, AC, radiator, exhaust etc.

Thanks barnett468

[rwcstang 214]

I have a stroked 393w with a tko600 with .64 overdrive and a ford 9 with 3:50s, on the freeway, Im at 2k when at 65mph. Its a fun street/spirited car, im putting down 330rwhp/400rwtq.

strokers are high revving motors so you'll be fine. 

Im actually thinking of building another stroker but might go with 408/427 this time. 

[barnett468 418]

9 hours ago, rr03cobra said:

rebuilding the 9" small bearing so I haven't picked a gear ratio yet, going to add a TKO 5 speed. a lot of the highways are 75mph so maybe 3:50??

its going to be a street cruiser that will be driven on the highway also. No racing at the track but I do like to go fast. lol

I live in Denver and will be driving it in the mountains also

weekend driver,

I would like a more high revving car since I'm used to that in my cobra, but this isn't necessary

I would like a little lope but nothing too major. I'm willing to sacrifice horsepower for drivability and reliability. 

I've got some time to get all the parts needed. I just need to figure out which way I'm going to go so I can purchase the transmission, AC, radiator, exhaust etc.

Thanks barnett468

Here's 3 pages of 418 stoker kits.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/department/engines-components/section/engine-kits-rotating-assemblies/part-type/engine-rotating-kits/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-small-block-windsor?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&N=4294949512%2B4294882321%2B4294880931%2B4294447025%2B4294447021%2B4294447045%2B4294446928

 

however, since you like rpm, here is another approach that a lot of people do, which is to use a slightly smaller kit of 393 ci, however, because of your elevation, you are loosing a bit of hp and your 351 in denver feels more like a 289 does at sea level, so you might think about just going with the bigger displacement.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/department/engines-components/section/engine-kits-rotating-assemblies/part-type/engine-rotating-kits/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-small-block-windsor?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&N=4294949512%2B4294882321%2B4294880931%2B4294447040

In general, I prefer neutral balanced kits but it's not imperative.

Do NOT buy a pre balanced kit cuz in my experience, they are not properly balanced.

 

here's one cam that may work with your efi and will rev to at least 6100 rpm. you can call howards cams and ask if it is efi friendy. it will be a little more efi friendy in a 418 than it would in a 393.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-220525-12

 

COMPRESSION

unless you drive much below the elevation of denver, you need to run more compression to compensate for the elevation than you would near sea level. in general, the compression needs to be increased for "bigger" cams as well. without doing any calculating, my guess is that you should run around 11.0 static compression at your elevation with a 400 stroker and the cam above. you will also need premium gas.

 

GEAR RATIO

I would also consider 3.73 gears in your case, especially for spirited mountain driving. the 3.50's will really be a little numerically low with a "revver" engine.

 

GEAR AND BEARING TYPE

I only use US gear or the Italian made Motive gears. Motive has them made elsewhere as well but I don't use those. Timken bearings.

 

TIMING CHAIN
ROLLMASTER without thrust bearing.

 

LIFTERS

MORELS. Colorado speed has a good price on them and i think the rollers lunati and howards sells are morels also but call to verify.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mustangstofear 608]

The BBK part  # we use is 15690

[rr03cobra 3]

thanks everyone. Lastly, any crate motor builders you guys recommend and 2 5/8 or 3" exhaust?

[barnett468 418]

3 hours ago, rr03cobra said:

thanks everyone. Lastly, any crate motor builders you guys recommend

possibly ford racing

[1969vert 55]

m-6009-427f from Ford has treated me well...