Disc brakes question

[ksquared 13]

I have the original factory disc brakes up front. What's the consensus on them? Good enough? Replace with Baer, etc? Car will be a 550hp 428 when done. I don't expect to see much past 100mph but I do enjoy spirited driving at times. I recall that the brakes seemed ok back in the 80's when I last drove it (351W 4v). Cost is certainly a factor. Thoughts?

[Mike65 475]

I had factory disc brakes on a 68 GT Coupe I had back in the 80's that had a modified 302 & they seemed fine for me.

[Brian Conway 264]

I run the stock power disc brakes on my 428 car.  Perfectly happy with the performance.  Street or straight line track never a problem.  Only locked the brakes up once and it was the rears.  The skid/slide was slow easy and predictable.  Keeping the cars systems stock/original seems to be the way to go ?  Parts, repairs and instructions are much easier to obtain and work with.  Brian

[barnett468 418]

if you plan on driving hard enough for the brakes to get hot, like road race or a mountain road etc, you should get better ones.

 

[ksquared 13]

My 69 is a big project for me. Ultimately I want to put disc brakes on the rear and a lot of other stuff I won't cover here. Thing is I need to do what is needed now to get it on the road. Later enhancements come later, so to speak. Otherwise I fear it will take forever to get it rolling. The car has not run for years (probably since the late 80's). I haven't taken a close look yet but the brakes all look like poop. I suspect the pistons are frozen in the calipers. The rotors are quite rusty. I guess what I'm struggling with is do I just replace the front brakes with original single piston calipers & stock rotors or do something like a Wilwood Dynalite 4-piston kit? The Wilwoods will cost about $275 more ($300 vs $575). Forget the multi thousand dollar Baer stuff. Every time I think about something else, I hear a cash register ring :-)

[RPM 1,190]

I advise you to just rebuild/replace the stock stuff. I guarantee you it will save you money and heartache down the road. Brake lines including parking brakes won't need to be addressed. This coming from a guy with 14 inch front rotors and rear Cobra disc brakes.

[barnett468 418]

19 hours ago, ksquared said:

My 69 is a big project for me. Ultimately I want to put disc brakes on the rear and a lot of other stuff I won't cover here. Thing is I need to do what is needed now to get it on the road. Later enhancements come later, so to speak. Otherwise I fear it will take forever to get it rolling. The car has not run for years (probably since the late 80's). I haven't taken a close look yet but the brakes all look like poop. I suspect the pistons are frozen in the calipers. The rotors are quite rusty. I guess what I'm struggling with is do I just replace the front brakes with original single piston calipers & stock rotors or do something like a Wilwood Dynalite 4-piston kit? The Wilwoods will cost about $275 more ($300 vs $575). Forget the multi thousand dollar Baer stuff. Every time I think about something else, I hear a cash register ring :-)

the best wilwood brakes are radial calipers and the large diameter, extra thick discs. you will never need anything better.

 

 

[ksquared 13]

Thanks guys. I think I'll follow Bob's advice and stay with stock. If they don't perform as I want, then I can switch to the Wilwood system.

[Brian Conway 264]

you have chosen wisely.

[nymustang1969 22]

Over the winter one of my projects was to rebuild brake set-up.  Rebuilt calipers, replaced rotors and used Porterfield brake pads and rear shoes. Very happy with the braking performance with the upgraded pads, much better than the generic Raybestos pads I used for years.

[danno 128]

Sorry to bring this up again, but I also have factory power disc front, drum rears.  I have never been satisfied with them.  I want to be able to lock up the front wheels in a panic stop, and they will not do it.   The consensus here seems that the factory system is fine.  Is the problem something in my system? 

[jmlay 80]

When was the last time the fluid was changed? Have the brakes been bled recently? Cheap & easy to do.

[barnett468 418]

there are many brake pad options. most of the auto parts store pads are crap.

[danno 128]

I am in the process now of installing new calipers, new master, and new pads.  recently install new hoses to the wheels and rear axel rebuilt the  proportioning valve.   I have bought the cheap pads already, I could try others if they might work better.  If the factory power disc brakes can lock up the front wheels ( or close to it) if everything is correct, I will continue with getting the system as good as possible.   But if even a perfect factory system is not that great, maybe I should switch to an aftermarket system?

Barnett, what is a good set of pads, and where do I get them?

[Rsanter 152]

Stay with stock for now.

upgrade to more aggressive pads and look at adding drilled and slotted rotors to handle the heat better.

 

there are upgrades that can be made later if you find it is not enough.

 

 

in my 69 conv, I have factory front disc brakes and added rear disc.

if I don’t warn you or you are not buckled, I can put your nose to the windshield operating the brakes with my big toe

[danno 128]

3 hours ago, Rsanter said:

Stay with stock for now.

upgrade to more aggressive pads and look at adding drilled and slotted rotors to handle the heat better.

there are upgrades that can be made later if you find it is not enough.

in my 69 conv, I have factory front disc brakes and added rear disc.

if I don’t warn you or you are not buckled, I can put your nose to the windshield operating the brakes with my big toe

I am not worried about the heat, as I am just a daily driver on the freeways in Minneapolis.  What are the more aggressive pads?   It is good to hear they have the potential to work better.  It was about 20 years ago I fought the same problem with the power steering.   I did all the upgrades and got everything as good as it could be.  In 1969 it was probably ok, but not in 1999.  So I installed rack and pinion, and it was the greatest thing I have done to improve driveablity.   I just do not want to spend a whole bunch of time and money, and still have something substandard.   So it sounds like  the brakes will be better than the steering.   I will let you know how it goes. 

[barnett468 418]

12 hours ago, danno said:

What are the more aggressive pads? 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EBC-Brakes-DP21158-EBC-Greenstuff-2000-Series-Sport-Brake-Pads-/323889080480?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#viTabs_0

 

HAWK also makes several types. Below is their street pad.

http://hawkbrakesdirect.com/c-81-performance-brake-pads.aspx

 

If your rotors are not new or freshly turned, they should be turned before installing these but if you use them on old unturned rotors, you should at least sand them with around 180 and water to try and remove the old brake pad material that may be imbedded in the rotors. You also should follow the bed in instructions to get the optimal performance.

The hawk hps pads will make less dust than the ebc green pads.

[Rsanter 152]

On 8/21/2019 at 7:43 PM, danno said:

I am not worried about the heat, as I am just a daily driver on the freeways in Minneapolis.  What are the more aggressive pads?   It is good to hear they have the potential to work better.  It was about 20 years ago I fought the same problem with the power steering.   I did all the upgrades and got everything as good as it could be.  In 1969 it was probably ok, but not in 1999.  So I installed rack and pinion, and it was the greatest thing I have done to improve driveablity.   I just do not want to spend a whole bunch of time and money, and still have something substandard.   So it sounds like  the brakes will be better than the steering.   I will let you know how it goes. 

Look at the options for pads you have. They have pads that are classified as performance.

i went to brembo pads for my f150 and love them.

stay away from ceramics, just don’t like them.

a good semimetalic will be great, several,companies make good ones and give you several options for street, street performance, and track/racing

[JayEstes 172]

On 8/21/2019 at 1:16 PM, danno said:

Sorry to bring this up again, but I also have factory power disc front, drum rears.  I have never been satisfied with them.  I want to be able to lock up the front wheels in a panic stop, and they will not do it.   The consensus here seems that the factory system is fine.  Is the problem something in my system? 

I would have to say yes.  I can lock mine up, and it’s not that big of a problem.  It takes a lot of force, but it should lock up.

In my system, when I removed the booster, cleaned and painted it, and paid special attention to the cleaning and painting the exterior of the recessed portion that the seal “seals against” & also replaced that seal with new, my boost was much greater, and the pedal noticeably harder.  if you have rebuilt the valve in your dist block and put new o-rings in there and cleaned the heck out of it, along with the booster, and the lines are free and clear - the system should be able to lock the wheels no problem.  You also should clean and rebuild the rear distribution valve, as if that is leaking, it can weaken your brake pressure.

[danno 128]

1 hour ago, JayEstes said:

I would have to say yes.  I can lock mine up, and it’s not that big of a problem.  It takes a lot of force, but it should lock up.

In my system, when I removed the booster, cleaned and painted it, and paid special attention to the cleaning and painting the exterior of the recessed portion that the seal “seals against” & also replaced that seal with new, my boost was much greater, and the pedal noticeably harder.  if you have rebuilt the valve in your dist block and put new o-rings in there and cleaned the heck out of it, along with the booster, and the lines are free and clear - the system should be able to lock the wheels no problem.  You also should clean and rebuild the rear distribution valve, as if that is leaking, it can weaken your brake pressure.

Jay,  OK, I will keep working on my system as it is.  I have completed new calipers and Napa pads in front.  One new caliper in back.  New master, new hoses, rebuilt the distri valve.  It still is not stopping the car that great.   The pedal travel is 2.04 inches for a 1970, I assume the same for 69.  I am not getting that.  I get about 1.8 or 1.9 inches.  If I loosen the master cylinder bolts, I still get the same travel.  So for me maybe the master is not getting fully depressed.  So my problem could be a bad booster?   I am going to order a new Bendix rebuilt from Steve at Power Brake Booster Exchange.  I have 3 old ones I can send in on exchange. 

 

[JayEstes 172]

I still have my original bendix booster, and I haven't gone "inside".  There are three places for leaks, one along the MC push rod - I think mine was leaking here a fair bit, but also between the seal and the housing.  By cleaning off and painting the outside of the booster, refurbishing the MC push rod and lubricating it I got a noticeable improvement in boost.  the other place you can leak is where vacuum tube connects to booster.  I replace that seal too.  I'd double check these seals before I bought a whole new booster or had one rebuilt.  Inside, my is just fine, and has never been apart.