NASCAR engine 69 Fastback

[3Katz 26]

Hi guys,

I've found this site such a great resource over the last few years with really helpful members happy to help others I thought I'd try to contribute something - if for nothing else then hopefully for some amusement at least. 

Here is my Mustang, I bought it a couple of years ago from Texas and had it imported to Australia. My mate and I went and picked it up from the shipping yard, and that very same afternoon we were driving it on the road fully registered. (this is my nephew having a ball cruising the coast)

It had a nice 331 stroker, wide ratio toploader and disk brake lsd 9". It also had air conditioning and power steering. Notice I said "had"?

Everything has been sold off as I have been collecting parts over the last year or so - with allot of help from mates!

Something I've always wanted (and will work well in a light Mustang) is a NASCAR powered street car. A mate of mine who travels to the States regularly managed to score me a C3 Cup engine, built (originally) by the man himself - Ernie Elliott. It didn't come with the dry sump pump so I've rebuilt this second hand one and after ordering some mounts from Raceline have the pump mounted up and ready to start mocking up in the engine bay. 

[3Katz 26]

It will be running a T56 Magnum with the .8 and. 63 overdrive and a twin plate clutch.  I've pulled the interior out and am still impressed as to the lack of rust in this car, the rear screen leaks (of course) and I thought for sure there'd be some serious issues as a result but everything is good so far. There is some patch work in the boot floor area but it will be getting a new pan through there anyway, mini tubs and raising the floor if required to run the exhaust over the diff. 

I had some diff parts sent over some time ago and have started assembly. A Moser housing shortened 4", nodular iron center with grizzly locker, aluminium Daytona pinion support, 35 spline axles and unfortunately 3.7 gears. After fab work has completed and we have a tyre height and engine dyno results the center will come back out and get a more serious set of gears, probably around in the  low 5's. Had a minor stuff up when ordering the axles and studs as I ordered 5/8 x 3" studs thinking they were press ins. They are screw ins and as such are actually 11/16 on the shank. Too fat for the wheels I want to run so have ordered 5/8 × 2 /12" press ins and will have to get the axle flange machined to suit.

[RPM 1,241]

Holy crap! You boys down under have no fear. Looks real nice.

[3Katz 26]

Thanks RPM, it's not one for the purists but it should be a heap of fun. The body and chassis work will be done by a shop, as will the paint. I'd love to be able to do it myself but I just don't have the skills. I will do everything I can though and there's alot of easy jobs - tearing down, assembling components diff, brakes etc and putting everything back together. The next stage after getting the diff installed and car rolling is taking it to the chassis shop. 

[RPM 1,241]

Things I'd recommend if you don't already have them:

-Subframe connectors

-Export brace

-Monte Carlo bar

-Arning/Shelby upper control arm drop

[Midlife 838]

I would also add:

-insurance

sufficient funds in the glove compartment for bribing the local constabulary when caught speeding

[3Katz 26]

Yes it will require a bit of reinforcement, I'll definitely look at doing the drop as well. I aim to keep it mostly to the period, will be keeping the leaf springs and shock towers etc, no huge brakes or coil overs and will be running 15" wheels. 

Good advice Midlife!

[fvike 173]

On 5/14/2019 at 11:11 PM, 3Katz said:

 no huge brakes

Did you forget you are running an NASCAR engine ?? 

Anyway, it looks like a nice build. Looking forward to follow it!

[3Katz 26]

5 hours ago, fvike said:

Did you forget you are running an NASCAR engine ?? 

Anyway, it looks like a nice build. Looking forward to follow it!

Ha ha, yes that's definitely something to keep in mind, however the brakes need to fit under 15" wheels. I have 4 pot Willwoods for the back and will run the same for the front. Painted black they shouldn't stand out at all.

Thanks, I'm looking forward to getting some more work done. I would really like to have it finished within a year but these things always blow out so we'll see how we go.

[3Katz 26]

I had the axles machined to accept the new press ins and had to get the disks machined as well to fit over the 5/8 studs.

To get it rolling I had some BA Falcon rims with 2nd hand tyres. I had to put the rims on backwards with spacers because of the Falcon offset and shortened housing.

 Worked out ok and this week coming we're off to the body shop!

[3Katz 26]

It took me a bit to get it to the shop but the fellas have been getting some big bits done:

Tubs widened to the rail 

Chassis plated, anti roll bar tacked in. Springs moved inside the rails, rear crossmember and front crossmember with exhaust cutouts (tailshaft cutout to be done once we're back on the ground). Chassis connectors started as well. 

Engine and box fitted, angles set, mid and box mounts to be done. 

Next on the list is making the fuel tank, and mounting the dry sump tank and battery in the trunk. 

[RogerC 147]

I'm really digging the front engine mounts, nice job. I'm also considering either dry sumping my 351C or a wet sump system with an external oil pump. I have the tank but not the pump for a dry sump system. My sticking points are the amount of oil needed at oil change time, trunk mounted tank and even more oil needed cause the long oil lines to the front, or added weight up front with a front mounted tank. Why I'm leaning towards the external pump wet sump system.

[RPM 1,241]

 Nice clean design and work. Just some FYI I've experienced. I too had planned and had bought, but not installed a rear anti roll bar. Most everyone who's shared info after doing the Shelby/Arning upper control arm drop, and aligned it to the Daze or Opentracker specs, says a rear anti roll bar is not needed, and even adds over steer. Hard to believe I know. 

My 69 handles very neutral, taking hard fast turns without under or over steer. Your mileage may vary.  Again, nice work. 

 

[3Katz 26]

On 12/15/2019 at 11:00 AM, RogerC said:

I'm really digging the front engine mounts, nice job. I'm also considering either dry sumping my 351C or a wet sump system with an external oil pump. I have the tank but not the pump for a dry sump system. My sticking points are the amount of oil needed at oil change time, trunk mounted tank and even more oil needed cause the long oil lines to the front, or added weight up front with a front mounted tank. Why I'm leaning towards the external pump wet sump system.

Thank you, yes the mounts look nice, I'm very happy with the work. With the dry sump I wanted this type of engine from the start so was prepared to go the whole hog. I was hoping to be able to lower the engine a little more with the shallow dry sump pan but the gearbox is already at a point where we don't want it any lower. The dry sump will definitely hold more oil but that's an advantage I reckon, I will have the bottom of the tank hanging out the bottom of the trunk floor to enable oil draining and to let the motor breath from there. Oil changes will be expensive compared to a stock system but oil is in the same basket as fuel - still the cheapest thing I put into it. However mine won't be a daily driver,  sounds like an external pump on your wet sump could be a happy medium? 

[3Katz 26]

10 hours ago, RPM said:

 Nice clean design and work. Just some FYI I've experienced. I too had planned and had bought, but not installed a rear anti roll bar. Most everyone who's shared info after doing the Shelby/Arning upper control arm drop, and aligned it to the Daze or Opentracker specs, says a rear anti roll bar is not needed, and even adds over steer. Hard to believe I know. 

My 69 handles very neutral, taking hard fast turns without under or over steer. Your mileage may vary.  Again, nice work. 

 

Thanks, good to hear your thoughts. I have just received upper and lower arms from Opentracker and will use their template to do the drop. One of the reasons for the anti roll bar was to stop that body twist upon launching. Being a manual I don't think super hard launches are going to be as spectacular as with a high stall auto but it should help keep things tracking straight. Interesting to hear others experiences... I will find it hard to give an accurate report as to the difference the roll bar makes because the car didn't handle that fantastic to start with and having made a few changes at once will be hard to say what causes what. Either way I'm looking forward to being able to drive it again!

[unilec 57]

Awesome, cars going to be a weapon when you finish. If you have not already thought of it now would be a good time to weld in reinforcement plates on the shock towers, as well as the "dog bone" on the outside.

[3Katz 26]

Thanks, that's a good thought I'll run it past the shop for sure.

[3Katz 26]

A bit of a break over Christmas and back into it, gearbox crossmember done and master cylinders mounted up. We are going to need to make new pedals to move them to the right to allow heel toe gear changes. Until I get down to the shop to sit in the car and measure them up that's as far as we can go there. There's still plenty to do - Fuel tank, dry sump mounting, make new dry sump pan for the engine and sorting total engine height and bonnet clearance (or lack thereof).

[3Katz 26]

We got some more done this week - tailshaft loop integrated into crossmember

Filled the hole where the T56 hit the tunnel and sorted the hole for the shifter

Started filling holes in the engine bay and finished up and welded in the engine mounts

[RPM 1,241]

Nice work. Looks like the headers will be snug in there. 

[3Katz 26]

It will be close... I have a set of C3 Nascar headers which I'm hoping we can use with some modification, if not they will have to be made from scratch.

[fvike 173]

On 1/21/2020 at 9:05 AM, 3Katz said:

 

Filled the hole where the T56 hit the tunnel and sorted the hole for the shifter

NPD sells a T-56 spec crossmember. https://www.npdlink.com/product/crossmember-transmission-custom-tall-version-is-made-to/199428/202467

I used it in my conversion, it builds quita a bit, but I managed to use the concole. Got some pictures in my buildtread.

 

[3Katz 26]

Thanks fvike, they've made the crossmember already. The engine sits further back than the factory location and it incorporates a route for the exhaust as well.

[3Katz 26]

Nice build btw, just been reading through now - very impressive!

[3Katz 26]

Nothing too much to add except a shot with the air cleaner height.