Bolt on glass problem

[Jwb5858 1]

My 69 convertible has been upgraded to bolt on glass and it sits off the door outer felt by about 1/4 - 3/8 inch. This causes it to push in on the windshield pillar weatherstrip when rolling up. I've tried all alignment options and nothing seems to correct the problem.
After reading several post on the problem, none of which had a solution, it seems the location of the c guides that ride the guide posts are the root cause. Being bolted on the outside of the glass instead of on the bracket, inset and underneath the glass on glue in, it pushes the glass inward.

Now, how to fix it?
I've thought about grinding/milling down the inside of the c clamp.
Or, I've thought about moving the guide rods out at the top, by cutting and rewelding the flange.

I think getting a replacement set of guide rods and playing with then is the way to go.

If you've got a better idea or have experience with this issue, please enlighten me.

I will try and get some picks up after work today.

Thanks John

[aslanefe 333]

I have been going through such a problem on my 69 Grande.

Did you replace the outside windowfelt? If so, what brand did you use? Some felts are not as thick as the originals, and leave a gap.

The top mounting location of the guide rods can be pushed out a little bit without cutting and rewelding the top flange.

 

 

[Jwb5858 1]

The outside window felt has been replaced. It’s about 1/2 thick.

I was wondering how far out I could get the guide rod to move by elongating the bolt hole and bending the flange. That might be an option.

[aslanefe 333]

The soft part of the felt should be 1/2 thick (not including the metal piece etc), meaning it should sit 1/2 inches tall on the flat part of it. I received some felts that were 1/8 to 3/16 inches narrow.

Remove the glass (regulator can stay).

Loosen the top and bottom bolts holding the guide rods (do not remove the bolts completely, just loosen about 2 turns).

Put a piece of angle iron 1 to 1.5 foot long on the inside edge of the door frame across from the top bracket bolt. Get a pry bar, put the end of it just below the top bolt, fulcrum it on the angle iron and push the other end of the bar in. Angle iron is to spread the force on the inner door frame instead of bending in the point the bar is touching.This bends the area where the top flange of the guide is attached and also the top flange. I moved the guide rod about 1/4 inches out at the top this way. But be careful to not damage the outside of the door, push in slowly and measure how much you moved. You can measure the movement by putting a square on top of the door and sliding the other leg down and measure the gap between the square and the flange or bolt that attaches the flange.

Do not remove the bottom bolts on the guide, just loosen them; or you may bend the guide back at the bottom and put a dent on the door at the bottom.

If you can't move it enough this way, then you can cut the top flange and reweld it with the offset you need. Don't forget to gring out the sticking parts if you reweld the top flange as they may scrape your glass when rolled up.

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

Are you using the 69 aluminum guide blocks or the 70 guide blocks ? The 69s have a small nipple on the back side and if you use them with the 70 glass and brackets it will push the glass away from the outside of the door ,the nipple is an alignment nipple on the 69 that the 70 does not have the alignment hole for

[aslanefe 333]

Ridge, I have spent some time with 69 glued in glass and hardware and 70 (cougar) bolt in glass in the last few weeks to sort the problem of glass not touching the felt on the outside like the OP is experiencing . As far as I remember, the nipple you are talking about is on the brackets the glass is glued on to on the 69. Both 69 and 70 guides have holes for the nipple. 70 guide has studs that go through the glass. 69 guide has treaded hole and bolts go through the brackets to the guide. There is a rubber pad between guide and glass on 70, no rubber pad between 69 guide and glass brackets. 

[Jwb5858 1]

I don’t know that I would want to try and bend the guide rod top flange while it’s in the car. But, that’s where I think I will have to make the adjustment.

Ridge Runner, I am using the aluminum guide block. Mine has a dimple instead of a nipple. 

[aslanefe 333]

24 minutes ago, Jwb5858 said:

I don’t know that I would want to try and bend the guide rod top flange while it’s in the car. But, that’s where I think I will have to make the adjustment.

Ridge Runner, I am using the aluminum guide block. Mine has a dimple instead of a nipple. 

By doing the way I described you are bending both the door frame where the flange is attached to and the guide rod top flange . That way, the door frame where the rod is attached to gets bent outboard a lot more than the rod flange gets bent. The problem is not the guide rod flange, problem is the location of the mounting point on the door frame. My driver side fits fine without any tweaking, but the passenger side (which is an undamaged original to the car door) had the issue; measured the frame mounting points and saw that the pass side is inboard compared to drivers side.

But you can cut and reweld the flange of the guide rods and move the glass outboard if you do not want to bend the door frame.

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

1 hour ago, aslanefe said:

Ridge, I have spent some time with 69 glued in glass and hardware and 70 (cougar) bolt in glass in the last few weeks to sort the problem of glass not touching the felt on the outside like the OP is experiencing . As far as I remember, the nipple you are talking about is on the brackets the glass is glued on to on the 69. Both 69 and 70 guides have holes for the nipple. 70 guide has studs that go through the glass. 69 guide has treaded hole and bolts go through the brackets to the guide. There is a rubber pad between guide and glass on 70, no rubber pad between 69 guide and glass brackets. 

Yep you are correct i had them in reverse 

The 69 block will work on the 70 brackets ,it is the 70 block that will not work on the 69 glue in bracket because the 69 bracket has the nipple and the 70 block does not have the hole 

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

Ford did bent the top mounting point on the slide bars ,the one on the right has a different angle from the one on the left . I am not sure bending the bar alone will do it though ,the mounting tab in the door may have to be bent as well

[Jwb5858 1]

1 hour ago, aslanefe said:

By doing the way I described you are bending both the door frame where the flange is attached to and the guide rod top flange . That way, the door frame where the rod is attached to gets bent outboard a lot more than the rod flange gets bent. The problem is not the guide rod flange, problem is the location of the mounting point on the door frame. My driver side fits fine without any tweaking, but the passenger side (which is an undamaged original to the car door) had the issue; measured the frame mounting points and saw that the pass side is inboard compared to drivers side.

But you can cut and reweld the flange of the guide rods and move the glass outboard if you do not want to bend the door frame.

Now it's beginning to become clear. When I saw Ridge Runners pic on the different guide rod ends for 69 and 70, I knew the angled one would not fit the door.

So, you have to bend the rod flange and the door mount.

I sure hope others can use this info. Thanks for all the help!

Let me just add that, This is the site for 69 / 70 mustangs!!

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

Yes but the 69 type brake fairly easily if you are not careful  ,i never noticed the difference between the 69 and the 70 before ,the 70 is a lot more stout 

[aslanefe 333]

2 hours ago, Ridge Runner said:

Yep you are correct i had them in reverse 

The 69 block will work on the 70 brackets ,it is the 70 block that will not work on the 69 glue in bracket because the 69 bracket has the nipple and the 70 block does not have the hole 

 

Ridge, just looked at the 2 of the guides with studs from my 70 Cougar, they have the holes for the nipple to fit. Ford must have modified the tooling to eliminate the hole at some point.

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

Must have ,i once tried to use a 70 on a 69 and it pushed the glass into the door panel ,that was when i saw the difference

[Jwb5858 1]

18 minutes ago, Ridge Runner said:

Yes but the 69 type brake fairly easily if you are not careful  ,i never noticed the difference between the 69 and the 70 before ,the 70 is a lot more stout 

What makes it even more confusing is the vendors make no distinction between the 69 and 70 guide rods.

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

I dont think there is a real big difference ,the top bracket is a bit stronger but they bolt in the same and have the same arch ,i think the only thing is some may have needed bending at the top from the factory for the glass  to set right between the door and the door panel

[aslanefe 333]

24 minutes ago, Jwb5858 said:

What makes it even more confusing is the vendors make no distinction between the 69 and 70 guide rods.

Guide rods are manufactured the same for 69 and 70. Also the doors for 69 and 70 are the same. But when they assembled the inner frame of the door and outer skin, not every door came out with the upper mounting point at the same location. So they installed the guide rod and tightened it which bent the flange of the rod to match the door while also pulling the mounting location of the door inward. An other thing, my original felt did not touch the glass when it is rolled up. Ford did not bother to adjust the mounting point so the felt would seal. Now we have to fix all these by bend stuff etc to allign so the felt will seal. My 70 Cougar rods are not bent like Ridge posted but the felt seals. The 69 rod is not bent either and it does not seal without bending the door frame and flange on the passenger side. Now I have to find a manufacturer which has a felt that is 1/2 inches or more thick to seal. Cause the ones I bought are 1/8 to 3/16 inches small because of a manufacturing defect on the felt. On a side note, my original tail panel was welded crocked too, right side is 1/4 inches or more lower than left side.

[aslanefe 333]

Right side rods (front and rear) are the same, left are the same; right is different from left. Difference is the mounting angle of the lower flange. I remember seeing letter R stamped on the right rods (stamped on the lower flange if I remember right).

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

I had to check this out ,there is a right and a left as you can tell by my set of 4 1970 bars . The right sides have an R at the bottom of the adjusting foot,the left sides are un marked  ,the tops seem to be the same although one of mine is bent . You can see the tilt on the lower right foot ,and oposite direction on the  left .

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

A better pic of the R ,for some reason the left only has MS

[aslanefe 333]

1 hour ago, Ridge Runner said:

A better pic of the R ,for some reason the left only has MS

 

Same as the 69 and 70 rods I looked at, left only has MS. Right has MS and R. I guess if it is not R (right) then it is left side. Must have saved who ever the manufacturer (MS I believe) a few bucks to not put L on the die for left side.