McCleod clutch = Luk ?

[lanky 44]

Hello, I recently received my clutch from McLeod (75112) and the pressure plate has Luk stamped on it. I have to return the clutch anyways as the friction surface has damage on it, but now I am considering going with a centerforce unit instead.

Luk makes cheap clutches... why in the world did I pay 2X + for something branded as Mcleod? Did anyone know this already? 

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

just throwing out some thoughts.

are all of Luk's clutches cheap, or just they ones they sell branded under their own name?

what about the clutch makes it to be considered cheap?

[Brian Conway 264]

Quote

 

I just bought and installed a 10" diaphragm clutch for my 65.  Second one and only because I had the trans out and rebuilt.  Stamped ' LUK ' on the pressure plate assembly   I would consider this pressure plate a commercial grade  assembly with no special claims on performance.   If I bought a high performance type of clutch set up and discovered the LUK stamp on the PP assembly I would  would feel as though someone was being less than up front with me.  I would be asking some questions ? 

Brian

[barnett468 418]

9 hours ago, lanky said:

Hello, I recently received my clutch from McLeod (75112) and the pressure plate has Luk stamped on it. I have to return the clutch anyways as the friction surface has damage on it, but now I am considering going with a centerforce unit instead.

Luk makes cheap clutches... why in the world did I pay 2X + for something branded as Mcleod? Did anyone know this already? 

can you post photos of the pressure plate?

as of around 8 years ago mcleod was not making cheap pressure plates. i am a mcleod dealer and have used many of them. i also helped them come up with the lower pressure ratings for the ford line several years ago and saw them test pressure plates for spring pressure on their pressure plate tester.

[lanky 44]

Pictures as requested

[lanky 44]

BrianConway hit the nail on the head. Luk does make high end clutches, at least that's what I read online (vettes etc) but when you're buying from a performance oriented supplier like McLeod I thought I would be getting something else. 

[larryc94 38]

Maybe they buy parts and pieces and then modify them.

 

I know on the Flowkooler water pump I bought it is a GMB and they modify it with own impeller

[1969_Mach1 333]

5 hours ago, larryc94 said:

Maybe they buy parts and pieces and then modify them.

 

I know on the Flowkooler water pump I bought it is a GMB and they modify it with own impeller

Don't kid yourself.  Flowcooler merely pop rivets a disk to the back of the impeller.

Pretty common these days in all industries for one manufacturer to build products under different brand names.  They are usually made to different specs for the different brands.

[lanky 44]

Well since I have to return this clutch because it is damaged, I am thinking I am going to shell a little extra out and go for a centerforce. I'm confident their clutches are designed from scratch for performance applications (of different levels of course). 

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

42 minutes ago, lanky said:

Well since I have to return this clutch because it is damaged, I am thinking I am going to shell a little extra out and go for a centerforce. I'm confident their clutches are designed from scratch for performance applications (of different levels of course). 

definitely consider going with something like Centerforce DF.  It in general has pretty good reviews....

...and in case someone can't see the photos, this Centerforce DF has Luk stamped all over it....

I'm still trying to understand what about a clutch can make it considered cheap?  materials?  design?  heat treat?   balance?

 

[Brian Conway 264]

Last time at Southland Clutch San Diego Kim was telling me about the $3000 Kevlar clutch in his fox body.  Of course I just listened as this stuff is out of my league.  He went on to explain about some of the other expensive stuff they sell.  I gathered the costs were mostly material driven.  Helping me to understand these numbers he went on about the horse power some of the cars are making.  So 700 + HP  street/strip cars require extortionary material applications and more creative engineering ways to apply them.  Then, of course, a specially trained technician to install adjust and warrantee.  All adds up to the big bucks.  Brian

[barnett468 418]

Well if you use a centerforce the first thing to do is remove those pos weights. 

[1969_Mach1 333]

I get conflicting information regarding clutches on these older Fords.  I've been forewarned that diaphragm clutches with the stock linkage doesn't work very well.  The stock clutch linkage geometry simply was not designed for that type of clutch.  It works, but not nearly as well as with the stock three finger type clutch.  Does a diaphragm clutch work correctly with the stock clutch linkage, or do people just unknowingly tolerate it because the do not want to use the original three finger type? 

[lanky 44]

I have read of plenty of people loving their diaphragm clutches. That said, I would love concrete information on how much travel (at the fork) each one requires to fully disengage.

Barnett those centrifugul weights supposedly reduce the pedal effort at higher rpms right?

[barnett468 418]

3 hours ago, 1969_Mach1 said:

I get conflicting information regarding clutches on these older Fords.  I've been forewarned that diaphragm clutches with the stock linkage doesn't work very well.  The stock clutch linkage geometry simply was not designed for that type of clutch.  It works, but not nearly as well as with the stock three finger type clutch.  Does a diaphragm clutch work correctly with the stock clutch linkage, or do people just unknowingly tolerate it because the do not want to use the original three finger type? 

the leverage ratios are different which as you probably know changes the amount of stroke, and it is easy to overstroke some of the  the diaphragm clutches when depressing the pedal if the adjustment is not right. the problem with the diaphragms in a ford is one reason i asked mcleod to make the lighter 3 finger pressure plates for them.

 

 

 

[barnett468 418]

20 minutes ago, lanky said:

I have read of plenty of people loving their diaphragm clutches. That said, I would love concrete information on how much travel (at the fork) each one requires to fully disengage.

 

the easiest way to accurately measure this is on a special table like the one mcleod has although you could guestimate it fairly closely if you are good at geometry but you would also need the clutch disc because the stock type discs have a "marcel" plate between the two friction halves which affects the amount of travel the pedal has. plates like their dual friction do hot have this and therefore require slightly less pedal travel to fully engage and disengage them.

also, if a diaphragm pressure plate is used, the underdash clutch spring should be removed. you can then add a pedal return spring to the linkage under the hood if you want.

 

 

 

 

[DocWok 30]

The Centreforce  weights are there to increase the diaphram clamping force at higher r.p.m, centrifugal force tends to throw the weights outwards at higher speeds increasing the pressure the diaphram spring applies to the clutch plate.

Best of both worlds, allows for reduced pedal pressure at low rpm with increased clamping force at higher rpm.

I use a Centreforce DF on mine, had no issues, works great.

[lanky 44]

I purchased a Centerforce II clutch this time around. Guess what's stamped into the pressure plate?

So apparently Luk makes the components for McLeod and Centerforce. I am really curious where the value added lies with these brands.

Does the value come from testing?

For different vehicles I've seen really high end clutches marketed as luk...so why do they not market their own clutches in general as luk?

I've seen pricey Luk dual disc setups for other cars...are they also making the Centerforce DF and McLeod Twin clutches?

Nobody ever tells you this stuff.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

the "aftermarket" companies are likely trying to use as many "off the shelf (OTS)" pieces to build their clutches as possible while trying to offer packages that may not be readily available.

as an example, if a particular OTS piece (like the fingers) from LUK is adequate for the particular clutch, then it's likely cheaper to purchase that piece (high volume), than it is to make and design their own.  as the demand on the clutch changes, they likely mix and match parts to fit the need for the application and maybe offer something not readily available.   in some instances, maybe there isn't a particular piece of the clutch/pressure plate available that meets there design needs and requires them to design their own piece.

my Mccleod and Ram both use clutch materials from Miba….

most companies don't redesign every piece part for a total product package they sell.   

i'm an engineer at a company who designs/manufacturers transmitters.  we don't design every integrated circuit from scratch.  only when something isn't available or there isn't a way to do that, do we invest in designing a new piece.

your new Centerforce has Luk parts just like my Centerforce I posted pics of....what a surprise....

[lanky 44]

Buckeye thats a good take on it. I guess it just stuck out in my mind from a marketing standpoint. My background in business/marketing makes their strategy seem strange,  I get it from the parts/components sharing aspect though. Saves tons of time/cost to do this like most industries.

Not sure how Luk decides when/where they want to market higher end or specialty clutches as "Luk". I mean...Mustangs have been produced for 5 decades, a very long time in the automotive world.. And people have been hot rodding them from the start. Yet you don't see "Luk performance mustang clutches" (as an example) marketed as such despite a huge market existing, and them making the components.

But you do see high end Luk stuff for some cars. Now clutch assembly companies, which is what they are really doing,  are filling the gap in the market. Not saying they don't engineer any of their stuff, or that component matching / QA testing is easy.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

I don't believe it's fair to call a company such as Centerforce simply a "clutch assembly company".  some engineer or many engineers had to design the clutch package for a specific application which contains a lot of piece parts (e.g. lubricants, fasteners, carriers, hubs, rivets, clutch fingers, etc) or subassemblies.   

 

[lanky 44]

That's fair