lanky 44 Report post Posted November 9, 2018 Hello, I recently received my clutch from McLeod (75112) and the pressure plate has Luk stamped on it. I have to return the clutch anyways as the friction surface has damage on it, but now I am considering going with a centerforce unit instead. Luk makes cheap clutches... why in the world did I pay 2X + for something branded as Mcleod? Did anyone know this already? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckeyeDemon 211 Report post Posted November 9, 2018 just throwing out some thoughts. are all of Luk's clutches cheap, or just they ones they sell branded under their own name? what about the clutch makes it to be considered cheap? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Conway 264 Report post Posted November 9, 2018 Quote I just bought and installed a 10" diaphragm clutch for my 65. Second one and only because I had the trans out and rebuilt. Stamped ' LUK ' on the pressure plate assembly I would consider this pressure plate a commercial grade assembly with no special claims on performance. If I bought a high performance type of clutch set up and discovered the LUK stamp on the PP assembly I would would feel as though someone was being less than up front with me. I would be asking some questions ? Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted November 10, 2018 9 hours ago, lanky said: Hello, I recently received my clutch from McLeod (75112) and the pressure plate has Luk stamped on it. I have to return the clutch anyways as the friction surface has damage on it, but now I am considering going with a centerforce unit instead. Luk makes cheap clutches... why in the world did I pay 2X + for something branded as Mcleod? Did anyone know this already? can you post photos of the pressure plate? as of around 8 years ago mcleod was not making cheap pressure plates. i am a mcleod dealer and have used many of them. i also helped them come up with the lower pressure ratings for the ford line several years ago and saw them test pressure plates for spring pressure on their pressure plate tester. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lanky 44 Report post Posted November 10, 2018 Pictures as requested Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lanky 44 Report post Posted November 10, 2018 BrianConway hit the nail on the head. Luk does make high end clutches, at least that's what I read online (vettes etc) but when you're buying from a performance oriented supplier like McLeod I thought I would be getting something else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larryc94 38 Report post Posted November 10, 2018 Maybe they buy parts and pieces and then modify them. I know on the Flowkooler water pump I bought it is a GMB and they modify it with own impeller Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969_Mach1 333 Report post Posted November 10, 2018 5 hours ago, larryc94 said: Maybe they buy parts and pieces and then modify them. I know on the Flowkooler water pump I bought it is a GMB and they modify it with own impeller Don't kid yourself. Flowcooler merely pop rivets a disk to the back of the impeller. Pretty common these days in all industries for one manufacturer to build products under different brand names. They are usually made to different specs for the different brands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lanky 44 Report post Posted November 10, 2018 Well since I have to return this clutch because it is damaged, I am thinking I am going to shell a little extra out and go for a centerforce. I'm confident their clutches are designed from scratch for performance applications (of different levels of course). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckeyeDemon 211 Report post Posted November 10, 2018 42 minutes ago, lanky said: Well since I have to return this clutch because it is damaged, I am thinking I am going to shell a little extra out and go for a centerforce. I'm confident their clutches are designed from scratch for performance applications (of different levels of course). definitely consider going with something like Centerforce DF. It in general has pretty good reviews.... ...and in case someone can't see the photos, this Centerforce DF has Luk stamped all over it.... I'm still trying to understand what about a clutch can make it considered cheap? materials? design? heat treat? balance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Conway 264 Report post Posted November 10, 2018 Last time at Southland Clutch San Diego Kim was telling me about the $3000 Kevlar clutch in his fox body. Of course I just listened as this stuff is out of my league. He went on to explain about some of the other expensive stuff they sell. I gathered the costs were mostly material driven. Helping me to understand these numbers he went on about the horse power some of the cars are making. So 700 + HP street/strip cars require extortionary material applications and more creative engineering ways to apply them. Then, of course, a specially trained technician to install adjust and warrantee. All adds up to the big bucks. Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted November 10, 2018 Well if you use a centerforce the first thing to do is remove those pos weights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969_Mach1 333 Report post Posted November 10, 2018 I get conflicting information regarding clutches on these older Fords. I've been forewarned that diaphragm clutches with the stock linkage doesn't work very well. The stock clutch linkage geometry simply was not designed for that type of clutch. It works, but not nearly as well as with the stock three finger type clutch. Does a diaphragm clutch work correctly with the stock clutch linkage, or do people just unknowingly tolerate it because the do not want to use the original three finger type? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lanky 44 Report post Posted November 11, 2018 I have read of plenty of people loving their diaphragm clutches. That said, I would love concrete information on how much travel (at the fork) each one requires to fully disengage. Barnett those centrifugul weights supposedly reduce the pedal effort at higher rpms right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted November 11, 2018 3 hours ago, 1969_Mach1 said: I get conflicting information regarding clutches on these older Fords. I've been forewarned that diaphragm clutches with the stock linkage doesn't work very well. The stock clutch linkage geometry simply was not designed for that type of clutch. It works, but not nearly as well as with the stock three finger type clutch. Does a diaphragm clutch work correctly with the stock clutch linkage, or do people just unknowingly tolerate it because the do not want to use the original three finger type? the leverage ratios are different which as you probably know changes the amount of stroke, and it is easy to overstroke some of the the diaphragm clutches when depressing the pedal if the adjustment is not right. the problem with the diaphragms in a ford is one reason i asked mcleod to make the lighter 3 finger pressure plates for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted November 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, lanky said: I have read of plenty of people loving their diaphragm clutches. That said, I would love concrete information on how much travel (at the fork) each one requires to fully disengage. the easiest way to accurately measure this is on a special table like the one mcleod has although you could guestimate it fairly closely if you are good at geometry but you would also need the clutch disc because the stock type discs have a "marcel" plate between the two friction halves which affects the amount of travel the pedal has. plates like their dual friction do hot have this and therefore require slightly less pedal travel to fully engage and disengage them. also, if a diaphragm pressure plate is used, the underdash clutch spring should be removed. you can then add a pedal return spring to the linkage under the hood if you want. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocWok 30 Report post Posted November 11, 2018 The Centreforce weights are there to increase the diaphram clamping force at higher r.p.m, centrifugal force tends to throw the weights outwards at higher speeds increasing the pressure the diaphram spring applies to the clutch plate. Best of both worlds, allows for reduced pedal pressure at low rpm with increased clamping force at higher rpm. I use a Centreforce DF on mine, had no issues, works great. 1 fvike reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lanky 44 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 I purchased a Centerforce II clutch this time around. Guess what's stamped into the pressure plate? So apparently Luk makes the components for McLeod and Centerforce. I am really curious where the value added lies with these brands. Does the value come from testing? For different vehicles I've seen really high end clutches marketed as luk...so why do they not market their own clutches in general as luk? I've seen pricey Luk dual disc setups for other cars...are they also making the Centerforce DF and McLeod Twin clutches? Nobody ever tells you this stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckeyeDemon 211 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 the "aftermarket" companies are likely trying to use as many "off the shelf (OTS)" pieces to build their clutches as possible while trying to offer packages that may not be readily available. as an example, if a particular OTS piece (like the fingers) from LUK is adequate for the particular clutch, then it's likely cheaper to purchase that piece (high volume), than it is to make and design their own. as the demand on the clutch changes, they likely mix and match parts to fit the need for the application and maybe offer something not readily available. in some instances, maybe there isn't a particular piece of the clutch/pressure plate available that meets there design needs and requires them to design their own piece. my Mccleod and Ram both use clutch materials from Miba…. most companies don't redesign every piece part for a total product package they sell. i'm an engineer at a company who designs/manufacturers transmitters. we don't design every integrated circuit from scratch. only when something isn't available or there isn't a way to do that, do we invest in designing a new piece. your new Centerforce has Luk parts just like my Centerforce I posted pics of....what a surprise.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lanky 44 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 Buckeye thats a good take on it. I guess it just stuck out in my mind from a marketing standpoint. My background in business/marketing makes their strategy seem strange, I get it from the parts/components sharing aspect though. Saves tons of time/cost to do this like most industries. Not sure how Luk decides when/where they want to market higher end or specialty clutches as "Luk". I mean...Mustangs have been produced for 5 decades, a very long time in the automotive world.. And people have been hot rodding them from the start. Yet you don't see "Luk performance mustang clutches" (as an example) marketed as such despite a huge market existing, and them making the components. But you do see high end Luk stuff for some cars. Now clutch assembly companies, which is what they are really doing, are filling the gap in the market. Not saying they don't engineer any of their stuff, or that component matching / QA testing is easy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckeyeDemon 211 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 I don't believe it's fair to call a company such as Centerforce simply a "clutch assembly company". some engineer or many engineers had to design the clutch package for a specific application which contains a lot of piece parts (e.g. lubricants, fasteners, carriers, hubs, rivets, clutch fingers, etc) or subassemblies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lanky 44 Report post Posted December 1, 2018 That's fair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites