Help with idenfifying my Cam

[bigmal 225]

Hi guys, Just stripping my engine and I've found it has a Crane Cam HMV-272-2A-NC

I currently have a 351 Cleveland 4V, Edelbrock Performer and 600 Holley. I have overhauled 2V heads going on.

Could I have some advice on the characteristics of this cam and if suitable for a 2V engine.

I always thought it had a lumpy idle but wasn't sure if it was a cam or something else

[Cantedvalve 128]

I think it is this one (although degreeing it is the only way to know for sure)...

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-133042/overview/make/ford

They changed their numbering schemes.  What gives it away is the 272 on there. That is the duration.  It will be somewhat lopey.  It should do well, but I prefer split duration cams.  I’m running this one...

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-10320493lk/overview/make/ford

Mind you, I have a stock long block with the only real changes being the valve springs and the rocker arms.  Has a nice idle to it, and plays well with a 2500 stall converter.

[1969_Mach1 333]

With my limited experience, I'd say the Crane cam you are removing is fairly mild for a 351 CID motor and would have a smooth idle or very mild rough idle.  If it has a lopey idle, I'd look at something else, too lean, vacuum leak, etc. 

Your new cam is fairly aggressive and will have a lopey idle.  Is that what you are looking for?  A 600 CFM carb is kind of small for a Cleveland.  This cam will definitely want something larger.  Do you need a 10 degree split duration on a Cleveland?  I'd research that a bit if it were my motor before final cam selection.  Headers + good dual exhaust minimize the need for that split.

[barnett468 418]

...or it could be the one below one or even a different one, and the only way to possibly find out other than having it measured is to simply call Crane and ask them. Crane once made more cams then they currently do, therefore, it may not be listed in their current catalog.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-523941/overview/make/ford

CRANE

Local: 386-310-4875
Toll Free: 1-866-388-5120

[bigmal 225]

Thanks guys. I will email Crane and see what they say.

Just note, I stripped the engine and it has standard bearings and bore. Ford std pistons. Still has hone marks and no ridge. I find it very surprising for an old engine. 

I have a very small crack on one piston so all new pistons etc. coming my way.

[Cantedvalve 128]

That is the same thing I found when I tore down my 351C at 70k miles. Like an idiot of 20 years old, I threw new bearings and rings in it without checking anything.  I seem to have gotten lucky as mine has run great since.

[barnett468 418]

11 hours ago, bigmal said:

 

Just note, I stripped the engine and it has standard bearings and bore. Ford std pistons. Still has hone marks and no ridge. I find it very surprising for an old engine. 

I have a very small crack on one piston so all new pistons etc. coming my way.

It sounds like the vibration was actually a blessing in disguise then. If you haven't ordered the pistons yet you might want to get ones that will increase the compression but you need to determine what your combustion chamber volume is first.

 

[barnett468 418]

11 hours ago, bigmal said:

Thanks guys. I will email Crane and see what they say.

I think it will be the one I posted or one very close to it, because the grind number of the one I posted matches the numbers on your cam much better than the other cam that was posted but let us know what Crane says. Either the top or the bottom number is the actual cam core number, then they can grind a few different patters out of one core so they don't need a different core for every cam style. I have no idea why none of these companies simply put the grind number on the cam. It is very annoying.

H-272-2

[bigmal 225]

4 hours ago, barnett468 said:

I think it will be the one I posted or one very close to it, because the grind number of the one I posted matches the numbers on your cam much better than the other cam that was posted but let us know what Crane says. Either the top or the bottom number is the actual cam core number, then they can grind a few different patters out of one core so they don't need a different core for every cam style. I have no idea why none of these companies simply put the grind number on the cam. It is very annoying.

H-272-2

Looks like you picked it.

As I am going from open chamber to closed chamber heads I should pick up a little compression. The shop who are doing the balance are ordering have ordered the replacement parts which should arrive this week.

Any thoughts on this cam? If you haven't noticed I know very little about cams.

[barnett468 418]

3 hours ago, bigmal said:

Looks like you picked it.

 

 

It was just a combination of knowing some of the meaning of some of the letters and numbers on the cam from having gone over this with other cam mfg's before...and some plain old luck, lol.

 

 

 

[barnett468 418]

I'll post some characteristics of it in an hour or so but it is definitely not a huge race cam by any means.

How far do you plan to rev it, 4000, 5000, 6000 rpm?

Do you want an extremely smooth idle like a 1960 Cadillac has/had?

Do you want to roast the bejesus out of the tires (or tire) from a dead stop?

What is the cc of your combustion chamber and top of new pistons?

What is your gear ratio?

What carb and intake?

 

[bigmal 225]

5 minutes ago, barnett468 said:

I'll post some characteristics of it in an hour or so but it is definitely not a huge race cam by any means.

How far do you plan to rev it, 4000, 5000, 6000 rpm?

Do you want an extremely smooth idle like a 1960 Cadillac has/had?

Do you want to roast the bejesus out of the tires (or tire) from a dead stop?

What is the cc of your combustion chamber and top of new pistons?

What is your gear ratio?

What carb and intake?

 

Thanks Barnett, answers below:

How far do you plan to rev it, 4000, 5000, 6000 rpm? Max 5000rpm

Do you want an extremely smooth idle like a 1960 Cadillac has/had? Not too concerned about smooth idle but I don't want to loose brakes/vacuum. Currently seems lumpy at idle in Drive. 

Do you want to roast the bejesus out of the tires (or tires) from a dead stop? Yes please..... but not very often. (traction Lock)

What is the cc of your combustion chamber and top of new pistons? Getting out of my depth here. Stock 2v heads and stock pistons. I haven't CCed them yet.

What is your gear ratio? 3.25, 245/60/15, FMX

What carb and intake? 600 Holley, Edelbrock Performer (Stayed the same due shaker height). Iron manifolds. Will change to headers in a little while once I have paid the bills for current build.

[barnett468 418]

Do you want more bottom end power and better throttle response or did it have enough low end power with the current cam?

What year are the heads?

What is the part number and mfg of the pistons you ordered?

Do you mind running 98 octane or do you want to use the less expensive gas?

Do you have a stall converter?

 

 

[barnett468 418]

also need to know the spring rate of your valve springs . any engine rebuild shop can measure one for you in around 1 minute or in 3 minutes if they have to take it off the head.

[bigmal 225]

38 minutes ago, barnett468 said:

Do you want more bottom end power and better throttle response or did it have enough low end power with the current cam?

What year are the heads?

What is the part number and mfg of the pistons you ordered?

Do you mind running 98 octane or do you want to use the less expensive gas?

Do you have a stall converter? 

 

 

I know this won't be much help but this is all I know:

Do you want more bottom end power and better throttle response or did it have enough low end power with the current cam?      I am chasing more acceleration off the mark. Not concerned about speed. I am on licence number 6 so need to behave.

What year are the heads?        Unknown. Bought second hand and had them reconditioned. 2V Closed chamber. Non adjustable rockers. Single springs (need to upgrade the springs)

What is the part number and mfg of the pistons you ordered?        I don't know. The shop doing the balance have ordered them. I know they aren't fancy.

Do you mind running 98 octane or do you want to use the less expensive gas?        I always run 98. Not worried about the cost of gas.

Do you have a stall converter?         I don't believe so. At idle and in Drive it lurches.

[bigmal 225]

3 minutes ago, barnett468 said:

also need to know the spring rate of your valve springs . any engine rebuild shop can measure one for you in around 1 minute or in 3 minutes if they have to take it off the head.

I know the springs will need to be replaced. They are stock single springs.

[barnett468 418]

On 10/15/2018 at 3:56 PM, bigmal said:

 

Could I have some advice on the characteristics of this cam and if suitable for a 2V engine. I always thought it had a lumpy idle but wasn't sure if it was a cam or something else

 

Probably half of the "lumpy" idle was caused by the out of balance issue because that is not a huge lumpy cam.

[bigmal 225]

Just now, barnett468 said:

Probably half of the "lumpy" idle was caused by the out of balance issue because that is not a huge lumpy cam.

I'm starting to think there may be no great benefit in changing the cam. I will probably pick up enough power with the different heads.

[barnett468 418]

2 minutes ago, bigmal said:

Do you want more bottom end power and better throttle response or did it have enough low end power with the current cam?      I am chasing more acceleration off the mark. Not concerned about speed. I am on licence number 6 so need to behave.

What year are the heads?        Unknown. Bought second hand and had them reconditioned. 2V Closed chamber. Non adjustable rockers. Single springs (need to upgrade the springs)

What is the part number and mfg of the pistons you ordered?        I don't know. The shop doing the balance have ordered them. I know they aren't fancy.

Do you mind running 98 octane or do you want to use the less expensive gas?        I always run 98. Not worried about the cost of gas.

Do you have a stall converter?         I don't believe so. At idle and in Drive it lurches.

1. You should to change the rear gear ratio then.

2. Get the part number.

3. Better get the part number from them or have them tell you the dome volume. Just tossing n pistons without knowing what compression they will provide is a sure way to have problems and a less than optimal performing engine.

4. xlnt, then you can run around 10.0 static compression.

5. if you get a 200 rpm stall converter it will be easier to roast the tires off the line, plus it will keep the engine from dropping a lot of rpm and lurching etc when the trans is engaged when a high perf cam is used. A numerically higher gear ratio will also help roast the tires.

[barnett468 418]

2 minutes ago, bigmal said:

I'm starting to think there may be no great benefit in changing the cam. I will probably pick up enough power with the different heads.

why do you think smaller heads will give you more power?

[bigmal 225]

Just now, barnett468 said:

why do you think small heads will give you more power?

Smaller combustion chamber. Greater compression ratio and smaller ports. I'm told give better torque.

[barnett468 418]

i would have them zero deck the block then run cometic .035" thick head gaskets the same size as the bore.

[barnett468 418]

5 minutes ago, bigmal said:

Smaller combustion chamber. Greater compression ratio and smaller ports. I'm told give better torque.

well, it is FAR more complicated than that. if you want to build it correctly, i can help you but only if you get me the info i asked for. it seems pointless to me for someone to do all this work and not build the engine optimally but that is just me.

[barnett468 418]

if you change the rear gears, you could use the cam you have but it will still have some lope and won't have extremely high vacuum.

[bigmal 225]

1 minute ago, barnett468 said:

well, it is FAR more complicated than that. if you want to build it correctly, i can help you but only if you get me the info i asked for. it seems pointless to me for someone to do all this work and not build the engine optimally but that is just me.

I understand what you're saying but unfortunately I am over budget already. It was only intended to be a head change and re-balance. It would be nice to  do a lot more and get the best out of the engine that's not an option this time around. Bare in mind out $ is crap compared to the USD so we pay double what you do.