Borgeson Power Steering Upgrade Kit

[50dan 25]

I’m thinking about doing this upgrade on my 69 with 351W.  I seen a lot of good reviews but my question is has anyone tried using this kit with long tube headers?  CJ Pony has the kit for $724 but I’m running Hooker Longtubes.  I know it says to try the Tri Y headers but I’d like to hear from someone with actual experience.  Thanks 

 

https://www.cjponyparts.com/borgeson-power-steering-upgrade-kit-289-302-351w-1968-1970/p/PSK16/

[1969_Mach1 333]

Don't forget you will also need a Saginaw power steering pump for it to work like it should.  The Ford pumps don't quite create enough pressure and some also say volume for the Borgeson power steering box.  The Borgeson steering box clears my JBA short headers on a 351W by about 1/4".  I don't know how it fits with your Hooker headers.  It has excellent power assist with the Saginaw power steering pump.  But it takes much more effort to get the entire kit installed than Borgeson leads you to believe.  Not certain I would do the conversion again.

[cavboy78 28]

i have the fpa longtubes and borgeson box with no clearance issues. 

[Her69fastback 3]

I don’t know about the headers. But get the Saginaw pump. I tried using the ford pump & it doesn’t work as well. Going to order the Saginaw pump

[Vicfreg 771]

I have the Borgeson on my 1970 convertible with a 351 W (393 Stroker) and a C6.    I used Hedmann Headers with adjustable motor mounts.  The headers are close to the Borgeson Box, but do not hit. I also am using a Saginaw pump. I have the same setup on my 1968, I am happy with it.

On my 1970, I installed (+) 3 Upper Control Arms, as the Borgeson with big front tires will work much better with a lot of Caster, more than you can get with the stock suspension.   Get the 6 cylinder hoses, as they are longer, and you will need the extra length to avoid interference with you headers.  On my 1970, I ran the power steering lines in the front fenderwells.  On my 1968, I had to wrap the lines with heat shield. That car has a 302 with Tri-Ys.

 

 

[bryonbush 85]

A quick search here will show you my experience with them. The Saginaw pump leaks like a sieve now. Dont waste your time with their hoses. Get some custom ones made that will allow them to go under the car, then up to the box or through the fender area. You'll fry the hoses they provide quickly if you drive a lot. The money I have into the box, hoses (few custom sets) and pump, I'd go rack. I was in your spot where every place an original PS could leak did and was in dire need of rebuilding. CJ had a sale and it was slightly cheaper than having everything rebuilt or replaced. That quickly became very expensive. Some people have been very happy and trouble free, but not for me. 

[Vicfreg 771]

Right...I would up making my own hoses.  Earl's makes high pressure hose and fittings that you can assemble in your garage at home without using special tools.  Fittings are expensive, but I got myself a roll of their hose and it worked out great.

 

[lanky 44]

I agree with bryonbush 100%

Hoses too short

Steering feel is awful (worse than factory system)

Had to modify my Baer tracker tie rod kit to work with it (unlike the factory gearbox)

Pump leaks (admittedly my leak is slow, but still)

Pump is super noisy (about same as factory ford pump

Return to center is really bad (I have 6.7 degrees of caster...it's a bandaid solution)

Included brackets are not a very sturdy design from a stiffness standpoint see

If I had a redo-rack and pinion without a doubt in my mind.

[Desertdave 11]

On 10/19/2018 at 9:02 PM, bryonbush said:

A quick search here will show you my experience with them. The Saginaw pump leaks like a sieve now. Dont waste your time with their hoses. Get some custom ones made that will allow them to go under the car, then up to the box or through the fender area. You'll fry the hoses they provide quickly if you drive a lot. The money I have into the box, hoses (few custom sets) and pump, I'd go rack. I was in your spot where every place an original PS could leak did and was in dire need of rebuilding. CJ had a sale and it was slightly cheaper than having everything rebuilt or replaced. That quickly became very expensive. Some people have been very happy and trouble free, but not for me. 

What rack and pinion setup can you buy for the price you have invested in your parts? They start about $2,000 and go up from there. Just curious?

[lanky 44]

If you want a power rack you can't find anything for the same price as a borgeson setup, however in retrospect I still wish I shelled out the extra $$ and went rack the first time. That said, I haven't tried their newer 14:1 ratio boxes.

My pump has ~2000 miles and is really noisy. I had to trim the pump mount spacers quite a bit for the pulleys to line up properly...much more than I should have had to for a bolt on kit. 

I can't emphasize enough how bad the steering feel is. The car doesn't want to go straight (especially at freeway speeds) despite multiple alignments at a good shop and tons of caster.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I have the 14:1 ratio box.  So far it works great.  There is a tremendous amount of assist with the Saginaw power steering pump.

I would suggest if the O.P. decides to go the Borgeson route, buy the pump and hoses from them as well.  Return the hoses if you ultimately make your own.  But buying everything from Borgeson eliminates any finger pointing to the mfg.'s of the other parts if something ever happens.

If I remember correctly, the 14:1 steering boxes are an all new part including the castings.  The older 16:1 boxes were rebuilt Toyota units and modified to fit Mustangs.

[Desertdave 11]

17 hours ago, lanky said:

If you want a power rack you can't find anything for the same price as a borgeson setup, however in retrospect I still wish I shelled out the extra $$ and went rack the first time. That said, I haven't tried their newer 14:1 ratio boxes.

My pump has ~2000 miles and is really noisy. I had to trim the pump mount spacers quite a bit for the pulleys to line up properly...much more than I should have had to for a bolt on kit. 

I can't emphasize enough how bad the steering feel is. The car doesn't want to go straight (especially at freeway speeds) despite multiple alignments at a good shop and tons of caster.

I have done an exhaustive search on this upgrade and everyone gives it a 4 or 5 rating. There have been a few 1's and that related to receiving a defective part from the get go. Everyone can't talk well enough about how much better the steering is going down the road and even better at freeway speeds. So if your unit is steering worse than a factory one I would have to say you have a defective gear box. If your pump is noisy it is probably defective as well.

To go the rack and pinion route is a major modification task. Removing the shock towers and installing a new cradle. Then if you are going that far while you are in there fussing you may as well convert to the coil over suspension and then the $$$ start adding up.

[Desertdave 11]

9 hours ago, 1969_Mach1 said:

I have the 14:1 ratio box.  So far it works great.  There is a tremendous amount of assist with the Saginaw power steering pump.

I would suggest if the O.P. decides to go the Borgeson route, buy the pump and hoses from them as well.  Return the hoses if you ultimately make your own.  But buying everything from Borgeson eliminates any finger pointing to the mfg.'s of the other parts if something ever happens.

If I remember correctly, the 14:1 steering boxes are an all new part including the castings.  The older 16:1 boxes were rebuilt Toyota units and modified to fit Mustangs.

If you buy it from CJ Pony parts, they are still a reman product. If you buy directly from Borgeson it is a new manufactured part. Its about a $100 more buy well worth it I think.

[lanky 44]

Many/most racks don't require shock tower elimination. Since I read of other people with the centering problems, it isn't a one time occurrence type of issue. Same with leaky pumps, which I should add they haven't changed. All I can do is inform others of my experience. 

[1969_Mach1 333]

6 hours ago, Desertdave said:

If you buy it from CJ Pony parts, they are still a reman product. If you buy directly from Borgeson it is a new manufactured part. Its about a $100 more buy well worth it I think.

I purchased everything from Summit Racing.  I noticed the casting on my steering box casting was an all new one piece unmodified part and looked different than the picture in the online catalog.  I called Borgeson and they told me I had the all new 14:1 steering box and not the older discontinued reman and modified 16:1 box.  This was about a year ago.

If Summit Racing has what I am looking for I go with them before places like NPD or CJ Pony Parts.  My thought is Summit turns over a lot of products so rarely, if ever, will have old inventory.  They also have excellent customer service for returns and exchanges.  And I am close enough to free ground shipping the next day.

[Desertdave 11]

3 hours ago, lanky said:

Many/most racks don't require shock tower elimination. Since I read of other people with the centering problems, it isn't a one time occurrence type of issue. Same with leaky pumps, which I should add they haven't changed. All I can do is inform others of my experience. 

I would be interested in seeing the kits you are referring too. Because all the conversion kits I have found require a cradle to be installed.

[lanky 44]

Kits from tcp, unisteer, Randall's, flaming river, etc do not require shock tower elimination. Cradles yes, but I referred to shock towers. Apparently with the FR kit you can even keep your cross member which I didn't know. 

[bryonbush 85]

On 11/2/2018 at 12:51 PM, Desertdave said:

What rack and pinion setup can you buy for the price you have invested in your parts? They start about $2,000 and go up from there. Just curious?

Look at steeroids or unisteer. Borgeson set up without the pump is close to 1k, then custom hoses being another few hundred, pump is another few hundred as well. Just this weekend I had to put all new seals in the pump which adds another $20-30 for the seals and fluid. For the hassle this has been, even another few hundred dollars to not have to constantly have leaking hoses, blown gaskets in the box, and pumps that leak is worth it. 

[1969_Mach1 333]

32 minutes ago, bryonbush said:

Look at steeroids or unisteer. Borgeson set up without the pump is close to 1k, then custom hoses being another few hundred, pump is another few hundred as well. Just this weekend I had to put all new seals in the pump which adds another $20-30 for the seals and fluid. For the hassle this has been, even another few hundred dollars to not have to constantly have leaking hoses, blown gaskets in the box, and pumps that leak is worth it. 

Some don't like Borgeson, some do.  That's fine, I understand everybody has different preferences.  But, your pricing seems high.  That's almost double what I paid for everything.  I don't know why your pump leaked so bad.  Maybe you got a bad one for some reason.  Saginaw pumps have been in around and in use for many decades and were never plagued with leaking issues.  I will admit, I don't like the Saginaw pump mounting bracket Borgeson offers.  It's clean and simply but not a good design.  Eventually I will get the mounting brackets that Jeff's Bronco Graveyard sells for the Saginaw pump.

[det0326 179]

I used the CPP upgrade kit. It is a 13.8:1 ratio and i love it. I have been running it now for about 2 years. Seems that it was around 500 and something. It came with steering box,Pittman arm and rag joint.  I am running a serpentine set up from a bronco and the bronco pump, works great.  The first one I received developed a squeak so I returned it for a replacement. Everything has been working good so for.    I have never had a problem with return to center with this box. 

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

Any one have the part number for the headman long tube headers for 4 speed i will need it soon ,i also have the Borgeson setup 

[Desertdave 11]

17 hours ago, bryonbush said:

Look at steeroids or unisteer. Borgeson set up without the pump is close to 1k, then custom hoses being another few hundred, pump is another few hundred as well. Just this weekend I had to put all new seals in the pump which adds another $20-30 for the seals and fluid. For the hassle this has been, even another few hundred dollars to not have to constantly have leaking hoses, blown gaskets in the box, and pumps that leak is worth it. 

You can buy all the stuff you need directly from Borgeson's site for $850, box, pump and hoses. Even if you upgrade to rack and pinion steering, whose power steering pump and hoses are you going to use? Fords pump is pretty noisy from the get go. So you still have the potential for leaks in any scenario you do.

[Desertdave 11]

16 hours ago, det0326 said:

I used the CPP upgrade kit. It is a 13.8:1 ratio and i love it. I have been running it now for about 2 years. Seems that it was around 500 and something. It came with steering box,Pittman arm and rag joint.  I am running a serpentine set up from a bronco and the bronco pump, works great.  The first one I received developed a squeak so I returned it for a replacement. Everything has been working good so for.    I have never had a problem with return to center with this box. 

What is a CPP upgrade kit?  Just curious.

[bryonbush 85]

1 hour ago, Desertdave said:

You can buy all the stuff you need directly from Borgeson's site for $850, box, pump and hoses. Even if you upgrade to rack and pinion steering, whose power steering pump and hoses are you going to use? Fords pump is pretty noisy from the get go. So you still have the potential for leaks in any scenario you do.

You haven’t used this system have you? The hoses they have suck and run OVER the headers which means they bake then crack and break. My hoses lasted a week while on the power tour. Anyone who actually drives their cars with their borgensons hoses are on borrowed time. It seems like you’re set on an argument on why we should stick with brogeson over rack even after I pointed out two kits that will be around the same price. Never the less, a search for my posts on borgeson will quickly show the issues they have for someone who drives their car a lot with this system. 

[det0326 179]

3 hours ago, Desertdave said:

What is a CPP upgrade kit?  Just curious.

It's like the Borgeson .  When I upgraded mine Borgeson only had the 16:1 ratio , the one everyone was having a lot of trouble with. 

I think it is Classic Power Products (CPP)