Clutch pedal not returning all the way to top

[Print Dad 58]

Hello all,

The car is a 70 Mach - -351C  - -3 speed stick.

The issue is the clutch pedal come up but sometimes get stuck.

The pedal returns to release the clutch but more often the pedal is sticking

about 2 inches down from the top of the stroke,

The clutch seems to be adjusted good - and I am thinking this issue could be related

to the large spring under the dash (on the pedal)

The return spring on the ZBar is new

So I have several questions if it is the bushing on the pedal- - I have read that many are using roller

bushings instead of the nylon

My questions - -

1. - Does it sound as though the issue could be the bushing?

2. - How hard is it to replace the bushing- -any step by steps on this. Keep in mind it took me hours

to change the dang brake light switch

This winter I plan to replace the z-bar bushings but the clutch pedal seems to return great but not all the  way.

I am not certain but i don't think my car has a return going from the z-bar to the firewall - -I don't think there is

a spot for it.

 

Any help greatly appreciated

I am thinking God is telling me it is time to sell the car after 41 years - - just not sure I am ready

Only had it once this year.

Anyway - -I shoud mention I tried some white lithium up on the pedal/spring area - 

the pedal returns all the way about half the time

 

Thanks - -Print Dad - -Sam

[1969_Mach1 333]

Have you disconnected the linkage from the pedal or the rod from the Z-bar to the clutch release fork below?  I'd start there and see if the pedal operates okay when it's disconnected from the clutch.  At this point it's difficult to determine if it's a linkage issue, a clutch issue, or the throw out bearing getting stuck on a worn front bearing retainer on the trans.

Like I mentioned, don't know the specific cause, but I'm inclined to think it's in the clutch or throw out bearing sticking on the bearing retainer and not a simple bushing.

Oh yeah, don't feel bad, the brake light switch is not the easiest to change on these cars.

[Print Dad 58]

Hello 69Mach1,

As always Thanks- -I should have given a tiny bit more info.

If I push the clutch pedal down to where i assume the throw out bearing is

hitting the pressure plate, the pedal stays there. It feels like the issue' is in the 

"free play" are of the pedal travel.

I have not pulled the linkage from the Z-bar or anything at this point

Took the car out and at times the pedal wants to hang

 

You are right - -the dang brake switch took me almost as long as the heater core replacement   LOL

When I did get the brake light switch in - -it went in in about 4 minutes - -but too about 50 tries - -LOL

 

Thanks again - -I think we will take the car out soon and see if it is still happening.

Seems as though the older I get the less umph I have -when I was young I woud just pull the trani

and chek EVERYTHING - -oh well - -I guess that is part of getting older  LOL

 

Thanks again - -be well - -Sam

[69RavenConv 286]

Hi Sam,

I've experienced the same thing on my 3-speed car. You probably need to adjust the "length" of the rod between the Z-bar and the clutch fork. (A little grease might help as well)

The rod is threaded into a collar that adjusts the "length" of the rod. Adjust it so there is a small gap between the rod and clutch fork at rest (1/8"). (You may want to remove the tensioner spring to adjust and then replace it). This should give you enough travel to bring the pedal fully back, while the clutch will still fully engage.

 

[1969_Mach1 333]

There should be only about 3/4" to 1" of free play at the pedal which like 69RavenConv mentioned, is only about 1/8" of free play where the rod contacts the clutch fork at the bell housing.  As clutches wear the free play diminishes.  If there is suddenly a lot of free play in the clutch linkage you need to look into why and be certain all is okay before simply adjusting it.

There are a total of 3 springs in the clutch linkage.  The assist spring up high under the dash, the return spring between the firewall and the upper lever on the Z-bar, and a spring between the lower lever on the Z-bar and the clutch fork.  That last spring is not a return spring but to prevent the rod between Z-bar and clutch fork rod from falling off.  You do have the return spring installed between the firewall and the upper lever on Z-bar?  The clutch assist spring up high under the dash along with that return spring should "snap" the pedal all the way up.  I would disconnect the rod between the Z-bar and the clutch fork and see if the pedal operates okay.  If so, the issue is somewhere with the clutch.  Maybe a simple adjustment, but I am not certain about that.

[Print Dad 58]

Hello all

First - thanks for the help and advice.

I plan to work on the car Wednesday or Thursday - - seems I also have a sticky brake up front.

The car has been sitting a LOT - -only out once this year

As far as the springs - - -I am positive there is the assist spring up under the dash

Last year I replaced the spring between the -bar  and the fork - the old one broke and the 

rod fell out.

I am pretty certain I only have those 2 springs - - I will look closer

The other spring (goes between upper level on the z-bar and firewall is not there I am almost certain.

If I recall I looked last year and don't see a hole in the z-bar and NO bracket on the firewall that it would

attach to. 

It sure would help if I could see a picture of where the bracket is located on the firewall.

I think I will look at MU or CJ and see is I can find the parts and then try to figure out

where they attach.

I know you guys are right - -BUT I am pretty certain my car is missing a spring and a bracket and 

has been for a long long time.

I was thinking the clutch is going but then again - -if I am driving slow in first and punch it it will chirp the 

tire - -seems like no clutch slippage. The clutch seems to be grabbing pretty high on the pedal.

ON my 65 Custom - -the rod between the z-bar and fork was adjustable - -not sure mine is.

I really need to look at things closer

 

It sure would be great if all I had to do was install a spring and perhaps a bracket

If someone know the part numbers I will order immediately

 

Thanks at least I have hope I can drive the car next month before the winter

 

Sam

 

Thanks so much guys I sure need the help.

Seems the mojo is going since I retired. 

[Print Dad 58]

Hello friends,

I was looking at a few sources - -this is what they call the clutch return spring

but it looks like the large spring under the dash - -

I was thinking the spring as move like the spring that runs from the lower zbar to the fork

Seems MU has no online catalogue like they did for years.

Am I correct that this is not my missing spring?

 

Thanks again - -sam 

[1969_Mach1 333]

That is the clutch assist spring that is up high under the dash.  The clutch assist spring helps you push the pedal down.  If that was missing your clutch pedal would be very difficult to push down.  The clutch return spring is in the engine compartment.  It connects to the firewall near where the steering column passes through and goes to the upper lever on the Z-bar.  Is your clutch return spring missing or broken?

Like I mentioned earlier there is a third spring between the Z-bar lower lever and the clutch fork.  It's purpose is to prevent that rod that goes from the clutch fork to Z-bar from falling off. 

Look at National Parts Depot online catalog.

Upper Spring, Firewall to Z-bar"

https://www.npdlink.com/product/spring-clutch-release-lever-rod-retracting-upper-bellcrank/144857?backurl=search%2Fproducts%3Fsearch_terms%3Dclutch%2Breturn%2Bspring%26top_parent%3D1%26year%3D1970&year=1970

Lower spring (I think) Clutch Fork to Z-bar:

https://www.npdlink.com/product/spring-clutch-lever-retracting-us-made-best-repro-concours/105869?backurl=search%2Fproducts%3Fsearch_terms%3Dclutch%2Breturn%2Bspring%26top_parent%3D1%26year%3D1970&year=1970

Clutch Assist Spring (up under dash):

https://www.npdlink.com/product/spring-clutch-incl-bushings-3-34-inch-long/105808?backurl=search%2Fproducts%3Fsearch_terms%3Dclutch%2Breturn%2Bspring%26top_parent%3D1%26year%3D1970&year=1970

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

There should also be a spring from the clutch fork to the frame to pull the clutch fork back all the way ,otherwise the throw out bearing would ride on the pressure plate fingers and wear out the throw out bearing . 

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

The spring actually attaches to the fire wall and the Z bar on 69 70s ,if you do not have this this is the problem

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

This is where the clutch return spring attaches,it is a raised bump beside the steering column opening ,it is slotted on both sides so the spring can be inserted .The clutch assist spring actually works opposite ,it pulls the pedal to the floor 

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

This may be a better pic of the spring tab beside the steering column 

[Print Dad 58]

Hello 1969Mach1 and Ridge runner,

PLease read this all I have a LOT to say.

I looked at my SHOP MANUAL and was getting a bit confused. I see a spring #7523 that goes from the z-bar to the

firewall but it doesn't show where on the firewall. Then I look at the next page and it looks like the same number spring

going to the fork - -I KNOW this is wrong.

I am trying to show you guys that I am trying to research this and fix it -not just ask you guys to do the research

I would like to comment to both responders

1969Mach - -Thanks I ordered both springs just now. I understand about the spring from the fork to the Zbar.

Last year this spring broke and the rod fell down - -I thought I blew the clutch  LOL

 

Ridge Runner - -yes yes yes - -that is the spring that is missing on my car. I don't think it has been there

for many years.

As mentioned - -I ordered it.

I located the "bracket" on our car and it is in a little different position but in the same area.

Our "bracket" looks a little lower - -but it is under the master cylinder and to the right slightly.

I think we will be fine

I also wanted to say THANKS - -for the GREAT pictures- -they were fantastic.

It took a bit to find the bracket - -but I did

I am sure hoping this will help the pedal return. Thinking about it - it should I HOPE

I ordered express shipping so I should have the spring in a day or two - -looking forward to trying it

 

I can't tell you both how much I appreciate your help, wisdom, pictures, links etc

I sure wish I would help you both someday

 

Thanks - - -Sam

 

[Print Dad 58]

Ridge Runner - -yes yes yes - -that is the spot it attaches

Thanks -- -Sam

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

I have seen this spring attaching point in a couple of different places ,may be because of different assembly plants ,looks like the san jose plant is to the right of the column. 

 

 

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

65 -66 has the spring on the fork ,and i am sure i have seen some 67s as well ,normally a 67-68 has a small bolt on bracket attached to the fire wall just above the bell housing  and the spring attached to the Z bar somthing like the 69 -70

[Print Dad 58]

Hello Ridge Runner,

I gotta say THANKS again - -this is a great place to find solid HELP.

Our car was made in Metuchen - -but I am certain that I have located the spot

to attach the spring. I am sure hoping that this will help - -would be nice and easy.

I have had this car about 41 years and I can't remember even seeing a spring from the

z-bar to firewall. WE wil see what happens but I am thinking that this should help.

As it stands now the pedal returns about 65% of the time - -with the help of the spring I am

thinking it should be 100%

 

While I have you here - -I should ask another somewhat related question.

I bought the bushing kit for the Z=bar - but have hesitated to install it.

The main reason I am nervous and hesitant is I am afraid of breaking the bolt that

holds the bracket for the z-bar on the frame rail. The end on the motor should be pretty easy.

Any tips or tricks if I do go to install the bushings this winter?

LAStly - -I want to wish you a happy Birthday - I know it is early but at least I get to be one of the first

to wish you a happy birthday.   I turned 67 a few weeks ago so you gotta go a little to catch me  LOL

 

Thanks so much - -Sam

[2ndgear 1]

I have a 1969 Mach 1 with the 390 -s code and do I need the upper spring that goes from the z-bar to the fire wall? The spring is not listed for the 390 or the 428 cars. I dont have one and I never had one for the last 45 years I owned the car not saying that maybe it should have one. What do you think or did you see one ever on a big block car. (390-428-boss9 -429) Thanks for your time.

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

Any of the standard trany cars would have had the spring ,it is what pulls the pedal all the way up ,also as stated above there should also be a spring on the fork and attached to the z bar , it seems like my cj had the spring through the cotter pin hole at the z bar and in the spring hole in the clutch fork ,it keeps the push rod from falling out of the fork ,it is not a lot of fun when this happens at a stop light . 

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

1 hour ago, Print Dad said:

Hello Ridge Runner,

I gotta say THANKS again - -this is a great place to find solid HELP.

Our car was made in Metuchen - -but I am certain that I have located the spot

to attach the spring. I am sure hoping that this will help - -would be nice and easy.

I have had this car about 41 years and I can't remember even seeing a spring from the

z-bar to firewall. WE wil see what happens but I am thinking that this should help.

As it stands now the pedal returns about 65% of the time - -with the help of the spring I am

thinking it should be 100%

 

While I have you here - -I should ask another somewhat related question.

I bought the bushing kit for the Z=bar - but have hesitated to install it.

The main reason I am nervous and hesitant is I am afraid of breaking the bolt that

holds the bracket for the z-bar on the frame rail. The end on the motor should be pretty easy.

Any tips or tricks if I do go to install the bushings this winter?

LAStly - -I want to wish you a happy Birthday - I know it is early but at least I get to be one of the first

to wish you a happy birthday.   I turned 67 a few weeks ago so you gotta go a little to catch me  LOL

 

Thanks so much - -Sam

To get the z bar mount out at the frame ,remove the two bolts at the top of the bracket ,remove all springs first . The bracket should just slide out of the z bar . The engine block z bar mount is a stud in the block ,3/4 inch wrenck to remove ,you should be able to pull the z bar off and leave it hanging there while you replace the bushings ,snap rings hold the bushings in place . Grease very well before you reassemble

[1969_Mach1 333]

Print Dad, Happy to hear you noticed the missing return at the firewall.  Why it worked before without that spring I don't know.  Certainly doesn't seem like it would.  When you included a picture of the assist spring in an earlier post I started to wonder if all the springs were installed.

The Z-bar removes just like Ridge Runner mentioned.  If you are concerned about the two bolts into the frame rail breaking, slather them up with some kind of penetrating oil for a day or so first.  After doing that, what I will do in those situations is if the bolt will crack loose, I loosen it a little, maybe 1/4 turn, then soak it again with a penetrating oil before completely removing it.  With the bolt cracked loose a little the oil can better get into the threads.  Otherwise, sometimes an old bolt will loosen a little, then as you are removing it the threads will gall and get ruined.  When reinstalling the two bolts, use Anti-Seize compound on the threads.  This will stop the threads from rusting and "fusing" together.

FYI:  When using Anti-Seize compound on threads, bolts do not have to be torqued as much as with oil or dry.  The Anti-Seize compound reduces the friction between the threads so clamping forces are achieved with less torque on the bolt than when using a dry or oiled bolt.

[Print Dad 58]

Hello guys,

I can't wait to get the spring and see if this does the trick.

It is ODD - -I am certain the spring has not been there for years.

I do now use anti-seize on a lot of things and love getting my fingers silver LOL

That dang stuff spreads fast   LOL

I also use PB Blaster for penetrating and sometimes a liquid wrench. It worked when I was

trying to loosen the nut on the top of the steering box (sector shaft). 

Seems when I have an issue with the Mach - -I have been tending to overthink the issue.

When I was young I would just take things apart and fix without thinking too much. Maybe this

comes with age - but at once time I could wrench pretty well. 

I gotta get the Mach out to s few shows and drives - -the car deserves to be driven.

I will post as soon as I get the spring - -Thanks once again

Sam

[Print Dad 58]

Hello all,

Wanted to post a follow up. The springs finally arrived and I replaced the top

spring from the firewall to the Z-bar. This was the spring that was missing on our car.

The pedal returns perfect now - -I can mark this one done.

Thanks to all for the advice and links - - it helped a lot.

In the future I will replace the z-bar bushings and I am thinking of replacing the

clutch and all the parts perhaps in the winter

 

Thanks so much - -great help - - - - Sam

[Brian Conway 264]

Thanks for the post.  I like to hear of a problem solved.  Brian

[1969_Mach1 333]

11 minutes ago, Brian Conway said:

Thanks for the post.  I like to hear of a problem solved.  Brian

+1