Rear Frame Rail

[Tain 63]

Hello, as I dig deeper and deeper into my build I notice more and shit that’s wrong. I fount out on the driver said rear frame a there is a 3 by 2 inch area of rusted through metal. And was wondering if I shout just patch it or weld a new half in? 

[SWPruett 83]

Honestly, looking at this latest discovery, I think it best to slow down and take a very careful look at everything on the car, starting with structural elements like this and start to carefully assess where you're at.  While nothing is generally "unfixable", the structural repairs at the most invasive and often the most difficult to assess as to their true extent.  At a glance, it seems the crushed rails are the least of the issues at hand.

One rule of thumb that has served our shop extremely well over the years is the "10:1 ratio rule".  In simplest terms, for every rust perforation you visually detect on the surface, there is approximately 10 times the rusted area _behind_ the perforation that you can't see and will need repair to get into good metal again.  Now, this applies more to exterior body surfaces than structure, but you get the idea.

While you have probably already started doing this, now is a good time to start a comprehensive notebook and detailed photo log of every area of concern.  This will pay huge dividends in formulating your game plan and allowing you to gain some "altitude" on the project and decide how you want to proceed.

Having said all this, I would not recommend a rail patch over a replacement rail.  Based on what I see, you will be back into the area for more repair sooner than later and a temporary patch will be.......well........temporary and one more thing to work around later on.  Consider buying one of the inexpensive wireless inspection cameras on Amazon.  I have had excellent luck with this unit:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071XYJM3C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It takes reasonably good pictures and video using your smart phone wireless connection and is nearly priceless as a tool for evaluating projects like yours.  The camera is even slim enough to get very close shots of the roof skin/"A" and "C" pillar leaded joints from inside and easily runs nearly the length of the rockers and into the torque boxes.  And for less than $40, its darn near a steal.

 

Best of luck!  Hope this helps.

 

[Tain 63]

51 minutes ago, SWPruett said:

Honestly, looking at this latest discovery, I think it best to slow down and take a very careful look at everything on the car, starting with structural elements like this and start to carefully assess where you're at.  While nothing is generally "unfixable", the structural repairs at the most invasive and often the most difficult to assess as to their true extent.  At a glance, it seems the crushed rails are the least of the issues at hand.

One rule of thumb that has served our shop extremely well over the years is the "10:1 ratio rule".  In simplest terms, for every rust perforation you visually detect on the surface, there is approximately 10 times the rusted area _behind_ the perforation that you can't see and will need repair to get into good metal again.  Now, this applies more to exterior body surfaces than structure, but you get the idea.

While you have probably already started doing this, now is a good time to start a comprehensive notebook and detailed photo log of every area of concern.  This will pay huge dividends in formulating your game plan and allowing you to gain some "altitude" on the project and decide how you want to proceed.

Having said all this, I would not recommend a rail patch over a replacement rail.  Based on what I see, you will be back into the area for more repair sooner than later and a temporary patch will be.......well........temporary and one more thing to work around later on.  Consider buying one of the inexpensive wireless inspection cameras on Amazon.  I have had excellent luck with this unit:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071XYJM3C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It takes reasonably good pictures and video using your smart phone wireless connection and is nearly priceless as a tool for evaluating projects like yours.  The camera is even slim enough to get very close shots of the roof skin/"A" and "C" pillar leaded joints from inside and easily runs nearly the length of the rockers and into the torque boxes.  And for less than $40, its darn near a steal.

 

Best of luck!  Hope this helps.

 

the project just gets more and more expensive as time goes on. 

[Tain 63]

both rails have rust. but this one is the worst with a complete rust through. 

[mustangstofear 608]

You would be better off  replacing  both rails.

[barnett468 418]

you might be better off getting a car that isn't rusty.

 

if you build that car, you really should have the entire thing dipped to remove all the rust, because, as neil young says, "rust never sleeps", and any rust on it will simply continue to rust, and as mentioned, what you see is only part of it. the rails are rusted inside as well and other areas of them may be extremely thin but you can't see them.

 

[bigmal 225]

Time to learn how to weld! Nothing like a good project like this to gain some valuable skills. If you have someone who will help and mentor you it is a rewarding job although you do need to be mechanically minded.

Also look ate the torque boxes. It's likely they will need attention/replacement. Would be well worth having an experienced person going over your car to identify the extent of the rust before you start. It will help you identify if you really want to start or as Barnett said, get a car that isn't rusty. Once you start it will be harder to sell than if you sell as is. 

For me, I liked the challenge and would stick with it.

[moodster 55]

It looks like you have quite a bit of rust on your rear frame rails.  This is common on 69's - the rear tail light gasket shrinks and water goes into the trunk.  It then goes into the frame rails since there is a drain hole behind your tail lights that opens to the frame.

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

I think you will find a lot more rust than just the frame rail ,as bad as they look the trunk floors are probably also gone ,looks like salt damage

[mustangstofear 608]

I would  agree with  that. 

[barnett468 418]

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 6:12 AM, moodster said:

It looks like you have quite a bit of rust on your rear frame rails.  This is common on 69's - the rear tail light gasket shrinks and water goes into the trunk.  It then goes into the frame rails since there is a drain hole behind your tail lights that opens to the frame.

it is far more common on cars that are driven on salted roads. I have never seen a car from the southwest that had rusty frame rails.

 

 

[Tain 63]

On 7/21/2018 at 11:06 AM, barnett468 said:

you might be better off getting a car that isn't rusty.

 

if you build that car, you really should have the entire thing dipped to remove all the rust, because, as neil young says, "rust never sleeps", and any rust on it will simply continue to rust, and as mentioned, what you see is only part of it. the rails are rusted inside as well and other areas of them may be extremely thin but you can't see them.

 

I would love to get a new car. 

but,  I don't have the money to get a new one. 

where would I get the car dipped?

[Tain 63]

On 7/24/2018 at 11:43 AM, Ridge Runner said:

I think you will find a lot more rust than just the frame rail ,as bad as they look the trunk floors are probably also gone ,looks like salt damage

the trunk floors are very very bad and so are the torque boxes in the front

 

[Tain 63]

but from that rusted part to the rear torque boxes are fine as far as I can tell. 

I believe the rocker panels are fine as well.

 

[Tain 63]

I also know when I finished, I will have blown a lot more money than it is worth. 

[danno 128]

2 hours ago, Tain said:

I also know when I finished, I will have blown a lot more money than it is worth. 

Sometimes it is something a  lot more valuable than money that we all have gained.  Pride and knowledge. Pride in knowing what we have accomplished to make it right, and knowledge in knowing to never do it again.  We are with you on this, whatever your decision.

[danno 128]

12 minutes ago, danno said:

Sometimes it is something a  lot more valuable than money that we all have gained.  Pride and knowledge. Pride in knowing what we have accomplished to make it right, and knowledge in knowing to never do it again.  We are with you on this, whatever your decision.

2 hours ago, Tain said:

I also know when I finished, I will have blown a lot more money than it is worth. 

I would like to withdraw my previous statement. Is that allowed?  After reviewing your previous post and the history of the car, you definitely have the pride thing twice over.  Never mind about the money, pride cannot be bought with it. You have a great Grande with the potential to be a lot of fun for many years.  I have had my 69 convertible for 36 years now, and keeps on going.  For you, in 10 years the money will be trivial, and the pride will still be with you. If you can, take your time and do it right. 

[Mike65 475]

18 hours ago, Tain said:

I also know when I finished, I will have blown a lot more money than it is worth. 

It is not all about the money, as stated above it is the pride in knowing you did it, & the enjoyment of driving it after it is done. Once my 69 Coupe is completed I do not want to know how much I have in it but I am not doing this to make money, I am doing this for the fun of doing it myself & then the enjoyment of driving it after it is done.

[Viperpete 36]

My car is in a similar state. Not as bad, but similar. I am going to replace everything I can. I don't want to mess with Patches. Its 50 year old metal. Fatigued, heat cycled, thin, flimsily metal... IMO. I'll have 65k in my car by the time it is where I want it. I know I cant sell it for that. So what? I am learning!

[Rsanter 152]

You still may want to get another car to use as a donar if you start to replace large sections or lots of pieces.

you may be able,to find a bare body with roof damage cheaper than buying a bunch of repo metal

[barnett468 418]

On 8/5/2018 at 5:18 PM, Tain said:

I would love to get a new car. 

but,  I don't have the money to get a new one. 

where would I get the car dipped?

you just have to google rust removal or chemical rust removal something in your area and call around. you are looking for a chelation process or a process where they can effectively neutralize the de-rusting agent, which is sometimes acid, after they dip the parts..