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Johns Summer of 69

Suspension for the every day driver

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I've tried some searching, but haven't directly found the answers to what I am trying to do. I am short on classic mustang experts where I live. I do have similar problems on my 1969 and my 1964.5, but I believe they have different problems/needs. My goal is to have a comfortable driving experience that doesn't break the budget. Except for maybe new shocks, the rear suspension will not change. Right now both are "squirrelly" on the highway, feel EVERY crack in the road, and feel like something is about to fall off when there is something larger than a crack. I know I need to look into the steering part of this by making sure that its packed with grease with the possibility that it/they might need to be replaced.

 

The 1969 has a rebuilt front suspension with the same shocks (Monroe) with 18 inch wheels with disc brakes. I believe the 18 wheels (previous owner put them on) are a part of the problem in its current setup. 

So should I get new shocks? Which brands are best for daily driver?

Should I install a negative camber wedge kit? https://www.npdlink.com/store/catalog/Suspension_Tuning-367-1.html

Should I also install a bump steering kit as well? https://www.cjponyparts.com/baer-bumpsteer-kit-1967-1969/p/BSK2/

What else would you recommend? (we are already at 55 + 355 + 190 = 600.00 in parts)

 

The 1964.5 (I know I'm technically in the wrong forum, but I believe the problem/solutions can apply) I have not spent my full attention on yet. It has the "Granada swap" disc brakes and 15 inch wheels. I am not sure of the condition of the suspension parts.

Should I just do the "Shelby drop" since it has 15 inch wheels?

Purchase correct geometry spindles? http://www.discbrakeswap.com/Mustang Disc Brake Conversion Kits Parts SWAP.2.html

and replace any worn out components

What else would you recommend?

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the only thing that will significantly soften the suspension on the 18" wheel car will be installing 15" rims with 60 series or 65 series tires. nothing else will make as big of a change.

i believe the granada spindles on the 64.5 car induce/increase bump steer but i think there is a kit to install that reduces that. lowering the upper a arm pivot point will make the car corner better. if it has stock springs and sway bar etc, stiffer springs and a larger sway bar will help it to corner better also but will also make the suspension stiffer.

 

 

 

 

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You mentioned the 69 had a rebuilt suspension but you might want to look at roller spring perches and adjustable strut rods.  These replace the rubber bushings that can bind up and keep the suspension from moving properly.  These are available for the 64.5 as well.  If you take the 'while I'm at it approach' there are also roller lower control arms that replace another bushing.  These won't make the suspension softer, but handling is more sure footed and smooth.  

www.opentrackerracing.com

or

http://www.rosehillperformanceparts.com/

 

Are a couple of options.  But the ride softness is really going to be affected by the low profiles tires required to run 18s.

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I have heard good things about opentracker and lot of guys are very happy with their product. 

For any suspension questions  I ALWAYS recommend people call Shaun and Street or Track.  He is very knowledgeable about anything mustang suspension related and will answer all your questions.   I bought my set up from him and talked with him a few times before spending any money and he was always very helpful.   He gave me several options for what I wanted out of the car and for what fit my budget. 

I did go all out on the front setup, but absolutely love and wouldn't change a thing.  My car was SCARY to drive before and would beat the crap out of me when I drove it.  Much improved over what I had and car drives great.   I run 17" and 18" staggered set up, and while it is not pillow soft, it rides great and doesn't beat me up any more. 

 

Good luck, there are a lot of options out there. 

 

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5 hours ago, Johns Summer of 69 said:

I've tried some searching, but haven't directly found the answers to what I am trying to do. I am short on classic mustang experts where I live. I do have similar problems on my 1969 and my 1964.5, but I believe they have different problems/needs. My goal is to have a comfortable driving experience that doesn't break the budget. Except for maybe new shocks, the rear suspension will not change. Right now both are "squirrelly" on the highway, feel EVERY crack in the road, and feel like something is about to fall off when there is something larger than a crack. I know I need to look into the steering part of this by making sure that its packed with grease with the possibility that it/they might need to be replaced.

--What you're describing is the typical classic Mustang with worn out suspension/steering.

 

The 1969 has a rebuilt front suspension with the same shocks (Monroe) with 18 inch wheels with disc brakes. I believe the 18 wheels (previous owner put them on) are a part of the problem in its current setup.

--How long ago was the 69 rebuilt? Many folks report bushing failure in a year or two while being stored.

So should I get new shocks? Which brands are best for daily driver? 

--Many folks are quite pleased with Bilstein shocks.

Should I install a negative camber wedge kit? https://www.npdlink.com/store/catalog/Suspension_Tuning-367-1.html

--No. Just do the 1" Arning UCA drop. 

Should I also install a bump steering kit as well? https://www.cjponyparts.com/baer-bumpsteer-kit-1967-1969/p/BSK2/

--I do know they work on lowered cars like mine, but I'm not sure if stock height Mustangs need them.

What else would you recommend? (we are already at 55 + 355 + 190 = 600.00 in parts)

 

The 1964.5 (I know I'm technically in the wrong forum, but I believe the problem/solutions can apply) I have not spent my full attention on yet. It has the "Granada swap" disc brakes and 15 inch wheels. I am not sure of the condition of the suspension parts.

--With as many disc brake options available for Mustang spindles, I would never use Granada pieces.

Should I just do the "Shelby drop" since it has 15 inch wheels?

--Yes! I'd do the Arning (credit due to the engineer who figured it out) drop on any classic Mustang I owned.

Purchase correct geometry spindles? http://www.discbrakeswap.com/Mustang Disc Brake Conversion Kits Parts SWAP.2.html

and replace any worn out components

What else would you recommend?

--If your steering box is worn and loose, I'd have Chockostang rebuild it. He also has disc brake kits.

http://www.chockostangclassicmustang.com

 

 

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The biggest single improvement I've made to reduce the squirrelling was fitting a rear sway bar. Made a huge difference even after I'd replaces all bushings, springs, ball joints and shocks.

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For the 1969 Mustang, if I understand the OP wants a softer ride.  First thing would be replace the 18" wheels with 15" wheels and a 60 or 65 series tires.  As far as feeling unstable "(squirrelly)" at highway speeds, it could be as simple as not enough positive caster in the front wheel alignment.  Beyond that, if the suspension and steering components are in good condition, I'd look closely at the power steering control valve and/or the steering box.

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6 hours ago, barnett468 said:

the only thing that will significantly soften the suspension on the 18" wheel car will be installing 15" rims with 60 series or 65 series tires. nothing else will make as big of a change.

 

11 minutes ago, 1969_Mach1 said:

For the 1969 Mustang, if I understand the OP wants a softer ride.  First thing would be replace the 18" wheels with 15" wheels and a 60 or 65 series tires.  As far as feeling unstable "(squirrelly)" at highway speeds, it could be as simple as not enough positive caster in the front wheel alignment.  Beyond that, if the suspension and steering components are in good condition, I'd look closely at the power steering control valve and/or the steering box.

I've never understood the fascination for large rims and low profile tires.  It makes the ride harsh, it increases the unsprung weight, and looks unsightly when overdone.  Have you ever seen race cars with low profile tires?  There's a reason for that...

I've not seen any major advantages to go this route other than availability of tires.  Stick with 65 series tires and you're ride will be much improved. 

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5 hours ago, barnett468 said:

the rubber bushings in the lower spring perches can not bind under any circumstance.

Not saying that stock bushing freeze up, lock, or don't allow any movement.  Just that the freedom of movement between a rubber bushing and roller bearing is quite noticeable.  I've never seen a posting anywhere that the user said they wish they hadn't done it or didn't notice improvement.  It is a couple hundred bucks that could be spent elsewhere so decisions for each owner to make.

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46 minutes ago, MN69Grande said:

Not saying that stock bushing freeze up, lock, or don't allow any movement.  Just that the freedom of movement between a rubber bushing and roller bearing is quite noticeable.  I've never seen a posting anywhere that the user said they wish they hadn't done it or didn't notice improvement.  It is a couple hundred bucks that could be spent elsewhere so decisions for each owner to make.

yes the roller bearing perches are nice but really don't offer a significant difference in ride because the rubber bushing type is designed to rotate and they actually rotate very little thought the stroke of the suspension in actual use, and the amount of force required to rotate them to the max amount they will see during actual use is nominal compared to the 1,000 + lbs of force the spring applies to them to make them rotate.

if someone doesn't have the money for the roller bearing perches but still wont some that rotate easier than stock ones for whatever reason, scott drake makes some with elastomer bushings that rotate 360 degrees for only $60.00 each.

http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/Store/Product/C4DZ-3388-HP.aspx?wid=141

https://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-coil-spring-saddle-high-performance-1965-1973/p/CSS4/

css4_1.1108.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

m butr

 

 

 

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On 5/22/2018 at 3:24 PM, Midlife said:

 

I've never understood the fascination for large rims and low profile tires.  It makes the ride harsh, it increases the unsprung weight, and looks unsightly when overdone.  Have you ever seen race cars with low profile tires?  There's a reason for that...

I've not seen any major advantages to go this route other than availability of tires.  Stick with 65 series tires and you're ride will be much improved. 

While I agree with what you and other are saying...I go to Laguna Seca a lot and many race cars run low profile tires now. In the case of our cars it isn't necessarily beneficial, but I had to say something for the sake of accuracy. I see a lot of high end production stuff running low profile tires (ferrari, porsche, bmw, etc etc)

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HIgh end production stuff with low profile tires are catering to the people who expect the latest in trendy looking features.  Go to a professional racing event: oval, road courses, off-road, drag strips, etc.: you'll be hard pressed to find a low profile tire below the 50 series, except for extremely wide wheels (e.g. 12+ inches). 

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1 hour ago, lanky said:

While I agree with what you and other are saying...I go to Laguna Seca a lot and many race cars run low profile tires now.

It depends on the type of car and type of race etc. Nascars do not use excessively low profile tires and they use the same tire profile when they race road race courses. One can not compare apples to oranges.

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On 5/22/2018 at 5:24 PM, Midlife said:

 

I've never understood the fascination for large rims and low profile tires.  It makes the ride harsh, it increases the unsprung weight, and looks unsightly when overdone.  Have you ever seen race cars with low profile tires?  There's a reason for that...

I've not seen any major advantages to go this route other than availability of tires.  Stick with 65 series tires and you're ride will be much improved. 

+10

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I was referring to professional racing and I meant to say production-based race cars, my bad. For production cars yes it's mainly a looks thing. I do consider 50 series low profile though, and certainly MOST race cars in general don't use smaller sidewalls than that. I'm assuming around that size is the sweet spot between tire characteristics and still fitting massive brake setups.

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You never mentioned the springs you are using....

yes the 18s with the low profile,tires will have an effect on the ride. You said the 64 has 15s on it, but what tires? If they have moreover sidewall then swap them on for a quick test of feel.

i use the eibach variable rate springs in my 66 and my 69. Love them

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i think what is being missed here in this debate is the gargantuan size disc brakes on the new, higher performance cars that require larger diameter wheels. My track car has 18" wheels and they barely clear the rotors... Are 20's excessive? Yes. But you can easily run a brake combo that requires 17s or 18s. Say what you will, but i'd rather have big brakes on a track than a 65 profile tire anyday. But...i know the OP never mentioned tracking his car. So, yeah...15s and 65 profile tires ftw.

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I totally agree. I have noticed that a lot of race cars that DONT run big diameter wheels have incredibly thick brake rotors to make up for the smaller diameter. But yes, street cars are totally different. If I could go back in time, I would actually not run the 13" brake setup that I have because it makes the unsprung weight greater and makes good aluminum wheels a lot more $$$.

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