Engine Installation - headers & transmission

[Sean D 31]

38 minutes ago, barnett468 said:

you may be able to use a drop down base on your current air cleaner and possibly a shorter air filter.

you can cut the choke tower off the carb you have if you want.

ford v6 contour fans and the sidewinder fan from matsons provide the most clearance between the pump and fans.

you only need 3/8" clearance from the fans with the engine mounts you have.

the driveshaft will move forward around 1/2" as the rear suspension compresses so you might want to raise the rear of the car by the diff then mark the driveshaft then unbolt it the push it in as far as it can go and mark it again then measure the amount it can travel forward. if it can move forward 3/4", it "should" be ok. if it moves at least 1" it is definitely ok.

 

the sidewinder below is only 1 5/8" deep.

 

 

Barnett - the picture was taken with the car down on all four tires with complete weight on diff and shaft. Getting it to compress would be a bit difficult. Any other suggestion to check? 

[barnett468 418]

I did not say to compress the suspension. If you read my post again and if you do exactly what it says and you will figure it out..

[Sean D 31]

3 minutes ago, barnett468 said:

I did not say to compress the suspension. If you read my post again and if you do exactly what it says and you will figure it out..

Got it...I read it to fast.

[unilec 57]

Would it not be easier in the long run to just have the driveshaft shortened by 1" to resolve this issue.

[Sean D 31]

4 hours ago, unilec said:

Would it not be easier in the long run to just have the driveshaft shortened by 1" to resolve this issue.

Not sure I have an issue yet. Going to pull engine forward 3/8" and check travel of yoke. But shorten drive shaft is an option. 

[Sean D 31]

I was able to move the engine forward 3/8" or maybe closer to 1/2", so drive shaft will be good. Here is final position of engine! I do believe I am going to have to work on air cleaner and/or carb chock tower for hood clearance, but will not know exactly what I am dealing with until I lay hood down for fitment. No one home to help today.

Generally, what do you all think?

 

[barnett468 418]

4 hours ago, Sean D said:

Generally, what do you all think?

i think that they don't make a drop down base for that air filter, lol.

it looks great and i think you did a superb job, especially for a first timer. wish it was mine.

you can put plastic food wrap on top of the air filter then put a balls of play dough on top of that in a few outer areas then lower the hood some and check the play dough thickness as you progressively lower it more and more. someone else may have a better idea though.

as far as your heater hose fitting on the intake manifold goes, if you have to run it in that position and the hose might hit something or lay on the valve cover etc, you can get a hose with a 90 degree bend from some auto parts stores if that will help. then the hose might run along the inside of the valve cover. i have done that several times.

 

 

[1969_Mach1 333]

If you are concerned about performance, use something other than that small oval air cleaner.  The larger the diameter the filter is, the better the air flow will be entering the carb.  Simply, larger diameter filters give the air more distance to straighten out before entering the carb after passing through the air filter element.  Many racing filters are 16" diameter for that reason.  But, those simply don't fit on these cars.  14" diameter filters have the largest variety of drop bases, filter heights, and tops, giving you more options to get a filter to fit under the hood. 

[Sean D 31]

7 hours ago, barnett468 said:

i think that they don't make a drop down base for that air filter, lol.

it looks great and i think you did a superb job, especially for a first timer. wish it was mine.

you can put plastic food wrap on top of the air filter then put a balls of play dough on top of that in a few outer areas then lower the hood some and check the play dough thickness as you progressively lower it more and more. someone else may have a better idea though.

as far as your heater hose fitting on the intake manifold goes, if you have to run it in that position and the hose might hit something or lay on the valve cover etc, you can get a hose with a 90 degree bend from some auto parts stores if that will help. then the hose might run along the inside of the valve cover. i have done that several times.

 

 

Thanks for idea on hood. The 90 degree heater hose is exactly my plan. It will be on top of the hose coming from the water pump. Also, I might be able to shave off 1/4" from base lip that sits on5op of carb.

[Sean D 31]

1 hour ago, 1969_Mach1 said:

If you are concerned about performance, use something other than that small oval air cleaner.  The larger the diameter the filter is, the better the air flow will be entering the carb.  Simply, larger diameter filters give the air more distance to straighten out before entering the carb after passing through the air filter element.  Many racing filters are 16" diameter for that reason.  But, those simply don't fit on these cars.  14" diameter filters have the largest variety of drop bases, filter heights, and tops, giving you more options to get a filter to fit under the hood. 

Thanks for the information, it's always welcome!

[GypsyR 32]

Just curious, why are there plugs in the water pump? Like where the bypass hose goes in particular?

[GypsyR 32]

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[Sean D 31]

12 hours ago, GypsyR said:

Just curious, why are there plugs in the water pump? Like where the bypass hose goes in particular?

It is just the way I received the engine from the engine builder, they dyno'ed it before sending it to me. I will put fitting in for the heater and bypass hoses.

[Sean D 31]

Keith Craft 408w with Weiend aluminum High Flow water pump, bored to 4.030” and compression is 9.9:1. I have the Milodon high flow 180 thermostat, Griffin 24" aluminum radiator, contour fans, and dcc controller. Can you give me your thoughts on coolant and additives? Live in north Alabama and will not drive car in cold, however it does get a little hot down here!

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

1 hour ago, Sean D said:

Keith Craft 408w with Weiend aluminum High Flow water pump, bored to 4.030” and compression is 9.9:1. I have the Milodon high flow 180 thermostat, Griffin 24" aluminum radiator, contour fans, and dcc controller. Can you give me your thoughts on coolant and additives? Live in north Alabama and will not drive car in cold, however it does get a little hot down here!

I need to keep my eye on this one. Similar to my build, specs wise anyway. I'm going to give Evans Waterless a try. Water turns into steam at 212°F. Mixing traditional ethylene glycol antifreeze with water in a 50-50 ratio increases the boiling point to 223°F, which is close to the operating temperature of an engine. Evans waterless coolants have a boiling point of over 375°F, far above the operating temperature of the engine. They say it runs about 10deg warmer but has less pressure in the system and no electrolysis to eat up the metals. No 2 year life expectancy either. But for best results, you have NO water in the system. Max the allow is 3% for it to work. Pricey though, at about $47 a gallon. Got mine on sale a year or so back for about ½ that price from a BMW dealer.

[barnett468 418]

In so california, i use 20% green anti freeze (ethylene glycol), 1.5 times the recommended amount of DEI radiator relief, and the rest water purified by reverse osmosis.

[barnett468 418]

10 minutes ago, 69ShelbyGT350H said:

I'm going to give Evans Waterless a try. Pricey though, at about $47 a gallon. Got mine on sale a year or so back for about ½ that price from a BMW dealer.

Mixing traditional ethylene glycol antifreeze with water in a 50-50 ratio increases the boiling point to 223°F, which is close to the operating temperature of an engine.

You can make your own "waterless coolant" for far less than that.

The radiator cap increases the boiling point of the water even further by around 3 degrees for every 1 psi increase in cap pressure.

 

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

1 hour ago, barnett468 said:

You can make your own "waterless coolant" for far less than that.

The radiator cap increases the boiling point of the water even further by around 3 degrees for every 1 psi increase in cap pressure.

 

Correct, the boiling point of water, normally 212° F, is raised 3° F for every 1 psi. of additional pressure. A typical 15 psi. cap, will hold the water in the system up to about 257 degrees F. This does not mean there is no boiling in the engine up to this temperature, but it is the point, up to which the cap will contain the expansive nature of the vapor. A 15 lb cap with 50% water 50%  Ethylene Glycol will raise the boiling point to 267°F . Evans Waterless recommends 1 to 2 psi., enough to close the system and still maintain a boiling point of over 375°F with no boiling in the engine at all.

Another plus, less pressure on your cooling /heating system. Less chances of blowing a hose, causing a leak in your heater core and or radiator. The down side, if you do get a leak, loose an effective amount of Waterless, adding water will remove all the positive effects of the Waterless coolant.

Maybe you can share how to make our own at a much lower cost? Is it as effective?

 

Edit: my previous comment of the boiling point to 223°F was w/o a pressure cap and strictly the boiling point of water with coolant.

Edited May 1, 2018 by 69ShelbyGT350H
explain boiling point differerences

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

2 hours ago, Sean D said:

Keith Craft 408w with Weiend aluminum High Flow water pump, bored to 4.030” and compression is 9.9:1. I have the Milodon high flow 180 thermostat, Griffin 24" aluminum radiator, contour fans, and dcc controller. Can you give me your thoughts on coolant and additives? Live in north Alabama and will not drive car in cold, however it does get a little hot down here!

Has anyone used other products such as Water Wetter? If so, any comments good or bad?

WATERWETTER^®

• Unique agent for cooling systems that doubles the wetting ability of water
• Rust and corrosion protection allows for use of straight water in racing or reduced antifreeze levels in warm climates
• Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature
• May allow more spark advance for increase power and efficiency
• Use one bottle for most passenger cars and light trucks, treats 3 to 5 gallons or 13.2 to 15.9 liters, vehicles with larger cooling systems should use two bottles, small cooling systems should use 1oz (3 to 4 capfuls) per quart
• Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOL® and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems
• Satisfies ASTM D2570 and ASTM D1384 corrosion tests for glycol-based antifreezes
• Contains no ethylene glycol

[barnett468 418]

1 hour ago, 69ShelbyGT350H said:

Has anyone used other products such as Water Wetter? If so, any comments good or bad?

Water wetter contains siloxane and can eat away at the inside of rubber hoses. all the "water wetter" type products work best with straight water. they are nearly ineffective with a 50% mix of antifreeze. i use DEI Radiator Relief as I mentioned.

The only reason that Evans was able to get a patent on it is because the coolant he makes is "non toxic", or more accurately, not considered sufficiently toxic by us government standards to pose a serious health risk) standards, and the only reason it is non toxic is because the propylene glycol in it neutralizes the toxic properties of the ethylene glycol. The "proprietary" ingredient he uses is nothing more than a rust inhibitor. 

I have to get my other computer working to give you the formula for the home made "waterless coolant", and yes, it is just as effective. I know what is in evans because I have the MSDS on it and because of a few other reasons, and it's proprietary ingredient is nothing more than a corrosion inhibitor of which some type is added to all antifreezes by the mfgs because both propylene glycol and ethylene glycol by themselves are actually corrosive.

Below is an excerpt right from Dow Chemicals own web site.

" With no corrosion inhibitors to buffer these acids and protect the metals in the system, the corrosion rate of a solution of plain ethylene or propylene glycol can be greater than that in plain water, which can be highly corrosive in its own right. "

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

Sorry, taking this on a slightly larger tangent, but has anyone read this and what do you think about a partial fill for a high-performance street engine as most of us are discussing here?

http://www.onallcylinders.com/2018/04/30/mailbag-can-you-use-block-filler-to-improve-engine-cooling-and-bottom-end-strength/

[barnett468 418]

in my opinion, it is overkill for a street engine unless it sees a lot of tract time as well. the block should be acid dipped first then bored after the hardblock is installed.

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

10 hours ago, barnett468 said:

in my opinion, it is overkill for a street engine unless it sees a lot of tract time as well. the block should be acid dipped first then bored after the hardblock is installed.

Along the lines of engine cooling...

Overkill, but not bad for a higher build street engine? I've done a few overkill things to my car, I have no issue as long as it's not too crazy or expensive. Not too many in my situation, but maybe some that are close. 69 351w that's now 060 over. They say the fill helps strengthen the bottom end and the thin-walled (large bored) cylinders. Per the article, a 1/2 fill will work on a street engine, so they say. A full fill is for race engines. The newer epoxy fill is better than the old concrete style, but, still almost impossible to remove once put in. The block can still be machined as normal, bored, sleeved if needed.

If you are not building a daily driver, or a real race engine (as in my case), I wonder if less than a 1/2 fill would be beneficial to the block in terms of adding strength. I'm talking a factory cast motor that's going to make 400-500 HP at the flywheel/flexplate. Per the article, there is very little effect on block cooling with 1/2 fill. Had to add that to keep the post on topic, but I do also think its an interesting thought/idea.  :-)

View my build photo album by clicking on the image

[69volunteer 84]

On 4/20/2018 at 7:28 PM, barnett468 said:

I also sometimes raise the back of the car around 12 inches from its static position.

 

Do this. I always put my engine and trans together on the stand and then using hoist and leveler slide into the car. With the back jacked up, it helps quite a bit. Never had to deal with headers.

Like someone said. It is more preference. I typically pull engine and trans so I can service both and wrestling a trans (even an alum 4 speed) into the pilot bushing doesnt sound fun with a car on jack stands. Now if I had a trans jack or maybe a lift, that might change the equation.

Lots of good suggestions here. I typically chase head bolt holes and intake to get good torque readings but neglect the exhaust. Good idea to tap all.

 

[barnett468 418]

2 hours ago, 69ShelbyGT350H said:

Along the lines of engine cooling...

Overkill, but not bad for a higher build street engine? I've done a few overkill things to my car, I have no issue as long as it's not too crazy or expensive. Not too many in my situation, but maybe some that are close. 69 351w that's now 060 over. They say the fill helps strengthen the bottom end and the thin-walled (large bored) cylinders. Per the article, a 1/2 fill will work on a street engine, so they say. A full fill is for race engines. The newer epoxy fill is better than the old concrete style, but, still almost impossible to remove once put in. The block can still be machined as normal, bored, sleeved if needed.

If you are not building a daily driver, or a real race engine (as in my case), I wonder if less than a 1/2 fill would be beneficial to the block in terms of adding strength. I'm talking a factory cast motor that's going to make 400-500 HP at the flywheel/flexplate. Per the article, there is very little effect on block cooling with 1/2 fill. Had to add that to keep the post on topic, but I do also think its an interesting thought/idea.  :-)

 

no, it won't hurt, but again, the block should be bored after because it may distort the cylinders slightly as it hardens and it wont stick well to rust which is why the block should be acid dipped first.

if you are concerned about cooling then you could fill it a little less than 1/2. much less than that would be virtually pointless.