Electric choke

[Midlife 814]

No harness; the solenoid has its wire integral to it.

[JayEstes 172]

OK I could have been more clear.  Where can I find +12V wire that they were referring to, which carries power to the solenoid, in the engine bay wiring?  Odd thing is my son's 71 doesn't have this solenoid either, but someone replaced his orig carb with a Holley, so I suppose it went away with the old carb.  I still haven't seen the wire I don't think.

 

[Vicfreg 771]

Hey Jay. I looked a while for the same wire. If you look back at the pictures of the wiring manual I posted, in the fourth picture I think it’s item number 26.   

 I also posted a picture of the actual wiring diagram to show where it’s up to electrically 

But you would have to validate in what state it’s hot because I’m not sure

[Midlife 814]

1971's have the female bullet for this: it's a white female bullet with red/yellow wire, located near the engine gauge feed plug.

[JayEstes 172]

11 minutes ago, Midlife said:

1971's have the female bullet for this: it's a white female bullet with red/yellow wire, located near the engine gauge feed plug.

now, see, THAT.... I can understand.  What about 69s?  Any of this?  Apologies to the thread starter if I am going too far afield - not my intention.

[Vicfreg 771]

Should be similar.  For ‘69-‘70 should be White female bullet at firewall near wires that run down to transmission reverse lights and neutral safety switch.  Item # 28 on my 4th picture  posted earluer of physical wiring drawing shows this plug.   

[Vicfreg 771]

[Vicfreg 771]

Not sure about 1969 actual wiring, so you may not have this plug

[Midlife 814]

1969's did not have a plug for RUN-only lines.  It did have a white female bullet, but that was for the PRNDL lamp.  1970 was the first year that they had this feature.

Now then, it may be possible that in 1969 there was a female bullet with green/red wires at the voltage regulator plug and that would be RUN-only.  This is not to be confused with the female bullet with yellow wiring; that is battery power.

[stangs-R-me 120]

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 11:41 PM, GypsyR said:

For simplicity and reliability, you can't beat the Stator terminal. Period. Millions (literally) of Fords were wired that from the factory. Some even came with Holleys. (4180's). True it doesn't provide a full 12 volts but it doesn't matter, you're just heating up a bimetallic coil of metal like a spring. A friend and I did some informal testing and found on average if you hooked up to direct 12 volts the only difference was the choke plate went full open about two seconds faster. Barely measurable and certainly not noticeable. I can't think of a single reason to not use the Stator terminal if you are using an original style alternator. Some people don't like simple and reliable I guess (people DO go out and buy Jaguars).  

Holley says not to, and so does Edelbrock. They should go into more detail and say not to on certain makes of cars and types of alternators but I imagine it's a LOT easier to just make a blanket statement. 

 

THIS ...

I added a Holley Electric Choke Kit to my 4150 carb back in 2012.   Ran the power wire to the STATOR terminal on the alternator and it works just fine.

My 1985 5.0L Mustang with factory Holley 4180 carb had the choke hooked up to the STATOR terminal too.

Why not try the SIMPLEST SOLUTION before reinventing the wheel ??   You are not going to damage the choke or the alternator giving it a shot ... a few feet of wire, some terminals, electrical tape wrap and maybe an hour of time and you can duplicate what I did.   Could probably rig something up temporarily to test it out in less than 10 minutes.

Not the best pic, but you can see my custom wrapped harness with black & red wires (ground & stator) attached to the back of the alternator.   It then snakes up over the intake and back to the choke.

Doug

[Vicfreg 771]

Sounds logical to me.  

[gordonr 4]

There is another option. Use the red wire feeding the w/wiper motor.  The choke should draw 2 amps up on initial power up then drop to less than .5 amps after 5 minutes. Randy at Midlife made up a small harness to plug in between the motor and the harness with the splice  to feed the choke so no damage to the original harness. I was obsessed about not having it show.

[skidmarky 50]

Stator terminal. Mine has been wired there for 30 years. Works perfectly.

[JayEstes 172]

20 hours ago, gordonr said:

There is another option. Use the red wire feeding the w/wiper motor.  The choke should draw 2 amps up on initial power up then drop to less than .5 amps after 5 minutes. Randy at Midlife made up a small harness to plug in between the motor and the harness with the splice  to feed the choke so no damage to the original harness. I was obsessed about not having it show.

Now I love that option!  This is where I scabbed into the connection (for temporary I told myself) on our 71 that has a Holley + elec choke.  I had the thought it would be nice to have an interim connection in that joint, but no idea where to get those connectors.  I should known Randy would have them....

[Bob & Sue 110]

I took a different approach using a relay Blazer 30 amp N005W sp/st with 2 #87 connectors to power both the 12v choke & distributor. I ran a short fused wire from the plus side of the battery, since I wasn't using the fused 6v wire to the coil I used that as the power on for the relay. Ran 2 wires 1 to choke 1 to dizzy, still need to make a harness for it now that I know it works.

It's been on there for over a month with no problems, plus I still have the fused coil wire if it ever goes back to a points system.

There's a lot of good ideas in this thread 

Would have posted on this sooner if I had seen this thread.  

[GypsyR 32]

Not real clear on what you did there Bob. Are you saying you used a single relay to power both the choke AND your ignition? Petronix or something maybe? I can't picture that being a good idea. Have you measured your voltage at the ignition (module/distibutor/whatever) when the choke is also powered up? I feel like there will be a voltage drop but I'm also not real clear on what you are powering.

[Bob & Sue 110]

It powers both the choke & dizzy here a pic of the relay wiring there are (2) #87 powered on connectors. They 2nd pic is with car running.

#30 fused 12 volt power, #86 fused link from key, top #87 to dizzy, bottom #87 to choke, #85 to ground 

 

[GypsyR 32]

Ah, I see what you did. OK then. Incidentally, that illustration isn't quite correct. The inner connector is universally referred to as "87A" and the outer one as "87". Most relay setups commonly don't use 87A like you did or even use it at all. But you certainly can! When it is used, it's normal to hook the lighter of the two loads to 87A and the one that draws more to 87.  Now that I mention that, I don't actually know why. An avionics guy once told me is what best to do it that way and I never questioned it. Or anything else he told me. If only I could remember half of it. Super smart guy.

[Bob & Sue 110]

This type of relay is referred to as a Bosch or European style relay with dual #87 normally open N/O pins.Mostly used for powering a set of headlights etc.

A relay with 1 #87 & 1 #87A is usually referred to as a common relay with #87 N/O & #87A N/C. When #30 triggers the relay #87A will change to N/O & 87 will change to N/C.

I'll try switching pins with dizzy & coil next time I'm working on it. It's working good now I hate to touch it.  I'll take some pics after the harness is cleaned up.

[ralt962 11]

On 4/12/2018 at 6:40 PM, Vicfreg said:

There is a "key on hot" wire that is used for accessories.   That is what I used on my other Mustangs.   I will take a look at the wiring diagrams and get back to you.  An example of this would be the controls for the A/C, rear defroster, and other power options.   

I have the same Holley.  I had the harness out of the car so I did wire it to the switch.  Any time the key is on the wire is hot.  

[GypsyR 32]

On 4/28/2018 at 10:13 AM, Bob & Sue said:

This type of relay is referred to as a Bosch or European style relay with dual #87 normally open N/O pins.Mostly used for powering a set of headlights etc.

A relay with 1 #87 & 1 #87A is usually referred to as a common relay with #87 N/O & #87A N/C. When #30 triggers the relay #87A will change to N/O & 87 will change to N/C.

 

Wait what? No way. Bosch brand relays are my favored brand but I don't believe I've had any that weren't 87A's. Perhaps I just haven't noticed. It's been very rare when I've used that extra pin. What you said perfectly correlates with what my avionics friend was talking about though. I've gotta look into this. Always a good day when I learn something new! A quick look at one of my favored references shows the info was right there under my nose the whole time. They reference the fifth pin as 87B on those. They also call them "double output" relays. Don't think I can get one by that name in the parts store. More research. Later!

[Bob & Sue 110]

9 hours ago, GypsyR said:

Wait what? No way. Bosch brand relays are my favored brand but I don't believe I've had any that weren't 87A's. Perhaps I just haven't noticed. It's been very rare when I've used that extra pin. What you said perfectly correlates with what my avionics friend was talking about though. I've gotta look into this. Always a good day when I learn something new! A quick look at one of my favored references shows the info was right there under my nose the whole time. They reference the fifth pin as 87B on those. They also call them "double output" relays. Don't think I can get one by that name in the parts store. More research. Later!

AZ actually sells them but they are listed on their website as a 4 pin instead of 5 pin, Amazon also sells them. The part # varies N005W or DF005W they're both the same.

I bought a case from Grainger for a bit over $10.00 I'm going to use them on the headlights also.

https://www.autozone.com/electrical-and-lighting/relay-and-resistors/blazer-relay-and-resistors/548657_0_0

https://www.amazon.com/Blazer-International-Trailer-Towing-Accessories/dp/B00LCVZNPS

[RPM 1,190]

This is from the Daniel Stern website:

The best relays to use in setting up a headlamp circuit have dual 87 terminals. That lets you use one 87 terminal to power the left filament, and the other 87 terminal to power the right filament in whatever circuit you're building (low beam, high beam, fog lamp, etc.). Note that a terminal labelled 87a is not the same as an 87 terminal.