Advice on reusing rockers

[bosephus 10]

These rockers came with a pair of performer rpm heads that I bought used. My concerns are that the "balls" seem discolored. I'm all about saving a buck when I can but I don't want to do anything foolish. This is not going to be a drag racer,i just wanted to wake up my 351w with a head,intake and cam swap. I would like to go with a hydraulic roller cam if that makes any difference.  Keeping the stock valve covers would be nice.Any advice is appreciated,Bo

[1969_Mach1 333]

These are my thoughts.  Since you are going through all the trouble of new aluminum heads, intake, and hydraulic roller cam, why not full roller rocker arms.  Your pictures are very small so I cannot see them very well.  But, I don't think stock 351W rail type rocker arms will work on those heads.  I'd go with ARP 7/16" rocker arm studs and something like Scorpion Endurance series stock 1.6:1 ratio roller rocker arms.  If in the end you do decide to spend the money for full roller rocker arms stick with US made and stay away from anything made overseas.  I've had very good luck with Scorpion roller rocker arms.  I've also tried Comp Cams chromoly pro magnum roller rocker arms when they first came out many years ago.  I sold them (basically gave them away) on eBay after very little use.  The fulcrum bearings didn't fail, but were very loose after the assembly lube came out and my valve train was always noisy.

One benefit of a hyd roller cam is you can have a more aggressive cam than it's hyd flat tappet cam counterpart and maintain better idle quality and higher engine vacuum.  That's simply due to the how the ramps on the cam lobes are shaped for roller cams compared to flat tappet cams.  Also, with a hyd roller cam you don't have the potential of damaging a cam lobe compared to a flat tappet cam if you don't use a high zinc phosphate oil. 

[barnett468 418]

don't worry about the color of your balls. if your balls look smooth and not gouged up they are fine.

make sure the rocker where your balls go is smooth. also look at the rocker tips ad valve tips for and wear.

make sure the valves don't leak if you don't plan to rebuild them but you might want to get new seals.

a roller cam is unnecessary for a moderate build and they are not cheap. it would help to know what your goal and intended use is and your trans and gear ratio and if you want a lopey cam and if you want good bottom end or bad bottom end but lots of revs etc.

you also need at least 10.0 compression and should run between .034 and .042" of quench/squish.

you also may need to recurve your distributor timing. 

what intake and carb?

if you have an auto trans, what stall converter will you use?

 

 

 

[bosephus 10]

I have done a t5 conversion and added 3.70 rear gears with an Eaton trutrack. Carb is a Holley 650 DP,Intake will probably be a performer rpm because I have my doubts that an air gap would fit under the hood. I will need a new distributor or a rebuild of the original. I like the idea of a roller cam for the "no worry"break in and modern oil compatibility.I'm still in the parts collecting phase so I haven't torn into the engine to see what I'm working with as far as piston,bore,piston to deck etc to check CR.Goal for the car is a weekend cruiser that can ruin tires at will while still having decent street manners. Car is a power brake,power steering, factory a\c car  if that matters. Thanks!Bo

[1969_Mach1 333]

Don't forget, the 351W uses non adjustable rocker arms that fit over a shouldered stud.  Also, the stock 351W rocker arms have "rails" that fit over the taller than usual valve stems to stop side to side movement of the rocker arm.  If the valve stem tips are not long enough on the Edelbrock cylinder heads, the rails on the rocker arms will push on the valve locks, 

[bosephus 10]

8 hours ago, 1969_Mach1 said:

These are my thoughts.  Since you are going through all the trouble of new aluminum heads, intake, and hydraulic roller cam, why not full roller rocker arms.  Your pictures are very small so I cannot see them very well.  But, I don't think stock 351W rail type rocker arms will work on those heads.  I'd go with ARP 7/16" rocker arm studs and something like Scorpion Endurance series stock 1.6:1 ratio roller rocker arms.  If in the end you do decide to spend the money for full roller rocker arms stick with US made and stay away from anything made overseas.  I've had very good luck with Scorpion roller rocker arms.  I've also tried Comp Cams chromoly pro magnum roller rocker arms when they first came out many years ago.  I sold them (basically gave them away) on eBay after very little use.  The fulcrum bearings didn't fail, but were very loose after the assembly lube came out and my valve train was always noisy.

One benefit of a hyd roller cam is you can have a more aggressive cam than it's hyd flat tappet cam counterpart and maintain better idle quality and higher engine vacuum.  That's simply due to the how the ramps on the cam lobes are shaped for roller cams compared to flat tappet cams.  Also, with a hyd roller cam you don't have the potential of damaging a cam lobe compared to a flat tappet cam if you don't use a high zinc phosphate oil. 

I'm glad you shared your experience with the comp rockers because those were the ones I was looking at. They appear to be compact enough to maybe fit underneath stock valve covers. I agree with you on the scorpions, I have a set in another project,even though it's a #%@vy

[bosephus 10]

6 minutes ago, 1969_Mach1 said:

Don't forget, the 351W uses non adjustable rocker arms that fit over a shouldered stud.  Also, the stock 351W rocker arms have "rails" that fit over the taller than usual valve stems to stop side to side movement of the rocker arm.  If the valve stem tips are not long enough on the Edelbrock cylinder heads, the rails on the rocker arms will push on the valve locks, 

Those rockers in the pics are (I think)comp roller tip rockers that came with the used heads I purchased. I won't be using the stock ones that are currently in the car. Thanks!Bo

[barnett468 418]

1 hour ago, bosephus said:

I like the idea of a roller cam for the "no worry"break in and modern oil compatibility.

you will not have break in problems if you break it in the way i do. do not use comp cams lifters.

i thought you were on a budget. your link bar lifters for a roller cam will cost around $375.00

what size valves are in the head?

[barnett468 418]

Goal for the car is a weekend cruiser that can ruin tires at will while still having decent street manners.

41 minutes ago, bosephus said:

Goal for the car is a weekend cruiser that can ruin tires at will while still having decent street manners. Car is a power brake,power steering, factory a\c car  if that matters. Thanks!Bo

 

Unfortunately that ain't never, ever gonna happen unless you run 195x70 tires.

[bosephus 10]

I'm not really so much on a budget, I just don't want to replace parts that don't need to be replaced. Sorry,i was as clear as mud about that! Those link bar  lifters are pricey but cheap compared to a rebuild caused by a wiped lobe. I've never broken in a flat tappet cam and just thought it would be easier to go roller. The only parts I have so far are the heads(fresh from machine shop) and the carb. Still need intake,cam,lifters,pushrods,timing chain all the gaskets and possibly new rockers.Thanks,Bo

 

[barnett468 418]

what size valves are they.

 

this is the biggest cam i would use in your case and the brakes may loose vacuum quickly in stop and go traffic or at lower speeds.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1669&gid=289

this is the smallest but i would use 1.7 or 1.72 rockers with it. this will have xlnt bottom and lower mid range but won't rev very far. it will have good vacuum for your breaks and a fairly mild idle. it really better suited to 3.5 gears when a t5 trans is used.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Howards-Cams-Retro-Fit-Hydraulic-Roller-Camshaft-Ford-SB-221-302-351W/productinfo/220235-12/

heres another option for good low end

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1668&gid=289

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1969_Mach1 333]

14 hours ago, bosephus said:

Those rockers in the pics are (I think)comp roller tip rockers that came with the used heads I purchased. I won't be using the stock ones that are currently in the car. Thanks!Bo

Okay.  I couldn't determine what they were from the small pictures.

[bosephus 10]

19 hours ago, barnett468 said:

what size valves are they.

 

this is the biggest cam i would use in your case and the brakes may loose vacuum quickly in stop and go traffic or at lower speeds.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1669&gid=289

this is the smallest but i would use 1.7 or 1.72 rockers with it. this will have xlnt bottom and lower mid range but won't rev very far. it will have good vacuum for your breaks and a fairly mild idle. it really better suited to 3.5 gears when a t5 trans is used.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Howards-Cams-Retro-Fit-Hydraulic-Roller-Camshaft-Ford-SB-221-302-351W/productinfo/220235-12/

heres another option for good low end

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1668&gid=289 Thank you for taking the time with this. I  know nothing about cam selection. Since swapping out the fmx\3:1 to the t5 3.7:1 it sure seems to "run out of breath" fast. I wish I had gone to 3.5:1 gears but you know what they say about hindsight. Thanks,Bo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bosephus 10]

6 hours ago, 1969_Mach1 said:

Okay.  I couldn't determine what they were from the small pictures.

They did come out small!,pics shrunk somehow between the transition from phone to tablet.t hanks,Bo

[barnett468 418]

21 minutes ago, bosephus said:

They did come out small!,pics shrunk somehow between the transition from phone to tablet.t hanks,Bo

i didn't see a reply in my message that you quoted.