Good clutch to use?.

[Mike65 475]

I should be getting the engine back from the builder within the next few weeks & I will need to purchase a clutch so I can bolt it together & install it, & was wondering if Spec 289/302 stage 1 clutch would be a good one for my 69 Coupe. The car will be used as a weekend cruiser, going to shows & cruise ins. The 5.0 will have a stock bottom end with Ford Motorsport M-6049-X306 heads w/1.6 roller rockers, & M-6250-B303 cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, & EFI. My engine builder says the engine should be making approx 325 HP.

https://www.cjponyparts.com/spec-289-302-stage-1-clutch-kit-1965-1973/p/CK40/

 

[barnett468 418]

do you need a pressure plate also?

will you be beating the crap out of it?

 

[Mike65 475]

Yes, clutch & pressure plate. The car will be used as a weekend cruiser, going to shows & cruise ins, no racing, no beating the crap out of it, just some spirited driving.

[barnett468 418]

ok, you may get several people suggesting a diaphragm pressure plate, but that is far from the best option in my experience and i hate them in  an early ford. i helped mcleod develop a line of stock style pressure plates for mild performance mustangs and that is the type of pressure plate i would use. the design is the same as stock but in a much higher quality plate, and they can make it any pressure you want. stock pressure was around 1575 on the small blocks, so on mild performance engines i use 1650. the pedal is light with this pressure, so if you don't mind a slightly stiffer pedal than stock, i would use a 1750. the pedal doesn't start to get what i would call moderately firm until around 1900 lbs but even this is not difficult to depress the pedal with but it can get a little tiring after a while in stop and go traffic.

mcleod sells a "street" disc which is decent for occasional mild use but i am not a big fan of it on  car i plan to keep. their dual friction disc is xlnt and is the one i prefer for keepers that will see and occasional beating etc.

you will have to call them to get the part number for this pressure plate because i don't think they list it n their catalog, however, i may still have a new one i would sell if you are interested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1969_Mach1 333]

I will agree with barnett468 on not using a diaphragm type pressure plate on early Fords.  The stock Ford clutch linkage geometry was simply not designed to work with them.

[Mike65 475]

I am not running stock clutch linkage, I am using a hydraulic setup from Modern Drive Line, & a T-5 world class trans. Here is a link to the hydraulic system I am using.

 

http://transmission.moderndriveline.com/speed/pc/1969-70-Mustang-Cougar-Hydraulic-Clutch-Master-Kit-LF-Series-Type-3-25p520.htm

[barnett468 418]

hmmmm...well i would still prefer an orig type pressure plate and it "should" work with that system, but you should contact them and ask. a diaphragm should definitely work fine with that system and your application, but if you used one of those, i would still use a mcleod in maybe an 1850 pressure range mainly because most other mfgs don't list the pressure of their plates, in which case you have no idea what you are getting which is never a good thing.

 

 

[Vicfreg 771]

I used the Ford Motorsport 10.5 inch "King Cobra" Clutch and pressure plate on my '68.  My engine is very close to the Specs of Mike's.   I have a cable operated clutch.  I've been driving the car for 8 years with no issues. I have a Ford Motorsport T5 "Z" transmission.  I also used a 5.0 style bell housing and clutch fork with the matching boot/seal.  

There are some variations of this kit with different diameters, but I used the 10.5 because it was compatible with my flywheel.   

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-7560-A302N/

http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-king-cobra-clutch-kit.html

[lanky 44]

I am curious why you guys dislike diaphragm style clutches with your cars. Was fitment an issue? Function? Adjustment? 

I have been considering primarily diaphragm due to the fact that it's the new 'standard' for most cars, lighter pedal effort, and supposedly they're more efficient in terms of force (less pedal effort lost to the clutch than long style clutches). Please correct me if this is off base. 

Barnett what is it about McCleods street disc you don't like? I was actually leaning towards using one when the time comes.

[barnett468 418]

no they do np

8 hours ago, lanky said:

I am curious why you guys dislike diaphragm style clutches with your cars. Was fitment an issue? Function? Adjustment? 

I have been considering primarily diaphragm due to the fact that it's the new 'standard' for most cars, lighter pedal effort, and supposedly they're more efficient in terms of force (less pedal effort lost to the clutch than long style clutches). Please correct me if this is off base. 

Barnett what is it about McCleods street disc you don't like? I was actually leaning towards using one when the time comes.

no they do not have a lighter pedal effort per se.

its the "new standard" because they are cheaper to make.

the mcleod street disc is just good for normal occasional driving , even mcleod doesn't much like it and likes the centerforce street disc better, lol.

 

 

[lanky 44]

Barnett I see diaphragm clutches used on high end ($$$) performance vehicles, and it begs the question in these high end applications if a long style clutch was better why do they still use diaphragm? I am really just trying to see my way through this and to understand. Can I ask where your last statement is from?

I am no expert obviously, and don't know enough about clutches to mix and match pressure plates and clutch discs across brands because I would fear non compatibility in the designs. Will any clutch disc for a sbf for example work with any pressure plate for a sbf? Assuming the diameters are correct for both of course.

[barnett468 418]

4 hours ago, lanky said:

Barnett I see diaphragm clutches used on high end ($$$) performance vehicles, and it begs the question in these high end applications if a long style clutch was better why do they still use diaphragm?

I am no expert obviously, and don't know enough about clutches to mix and match pressure plates and clutch discs across brands because I would fear non compatibility in the designs. Will any clutch disc for a sbf for example work with any pressure plate for a sbf? Assuming the diameters are correct for both of course.

Can I ask where your last statement is from?

1. There is also a lot of plastic on many "high end" production vehicles, plus I already stated that the diaphragm clutches were cheaper to make.

As far as the aftermarket pressure plates go, it is because people don't know any better and succumb to some mfg's advertising. There is nothing "wrong" with a diaphragm clutch other than they can sometimes remain disengaged when speed shifting at high rpms, but you won't find one on any funny car.

450 hp 427 corvettes, 428 cobra jets, boss 302 mustangs and cougars, boss 429 mustangs, boss 351 mustangs, camaro z28'3, chevelle LS6's, nicky, baldwin, yenko, dana, and dodge hemis etc all used lever type pressure plates and they seemed to work just fine.

Oh, and the weights on the centerforce diaphragm plates can fly off or seize up so many knowledgeable people take them off before they install a centerforce diaphragm plate.

 

2. If a disc is the correct size for the plate and flywheel, any disc will interchange with both types of pressure plates.

 

3. My last statement was from a statement made to me by the clutch builder at Mcleod when I was in their shop with several orig Ford pressure plates testing their pressure. He also said their street discs were made in Mexico because they could not make them in the US with the stranded asbestos fibers they had them made with.

.

 

[lanky 44]

I don't intend to test you in any way, just to learn :) It just struck me how widespread the use of diaphragm clutches are, that's all. Thanks for clearing up the mix/match question, that helps me out and probably other people inexperienced with clutch options.

Out of curiosity, was that a recent visit? They still use asbestos? I thought it wasn't tolerated anymore.

In single disc form, which clutch discs do you guys like for street/track vehicles? Twin disc are $$$$

Sorry about hijacking the thread, had these questions simmering for awhile

[barnett468 418]

4 hours ago, lanky said:

I don't intend to test you in any way, just to learn :) It just struck me how widespread the use of diaphragm clutches are, that's all. Thanks for clearing up the mix/match question, that helps me out and probably other people inexperienced with clutch options.

Out of curiosity, was that a recent visit? They still use asbestos? I thought it wasn't tolerated anymore.

In single disc form, which clutch discs do you guys like for street/track vehicles? Twin disc are $$$$

Sorry about hijacking the thread, had these questions simmering for awhile

no prob . yes the were still using asbestos as of a few years ago after it had been banned in the us, but the way they did it it was legal somehow, however, unless the asbestos is powdered and mixed with the disc material, it it isn't doing the job it was intended to do very well which is why their street discs are just good for occasional mild use. the ford discs seem to be much better than the mcleod street discs.

 

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

i don't get the comment about not finding a diaphragm clutch on a funny car.  i don't see how that has anything to do with a street or even a street/strip application.

[barnett468 418]

44 minutes ago, BuckeyeDemon said:

i don't get the comment about not finding a diaphragm clutch on a funny car.  i don't see how that has anything to do with a street or even a street/strip application.

That comment was intended for the op.

 

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

for your sake, good answer and good post edit.

[barnett468 418]

6 hours ago, BuckeyeDemon said:

for your sake, good answer...

That's an interesting and ominous comment, especially considering their was nothing wrong with my post, because it seems like you are implying that if you don't like someones posts, you will take some sort of adverse action against them.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike65 475]

Guys can we get back on track.  barnett468, what does it matter what kind of clutch they use in funny cars?, this is for my street car that will not see any track.

[barnett468 418]

10 minutes ago, Mike65 said:

Guys can we get back on track.  barnett468, what does it matter what kind of clutch they use in funny cars?, this is for my street car that will not see any track.

I was replying to lanky's comment quoted below. I already posted the info I thought would be useful to you.

" Barnett I see diaphragm clutches used on high end ($$$) performance vehicles, and it begs the question in these high end applications if a long style clutch was better why do they still use diaphragm?"

 

[stangs-R-me 120]

I put a Centerforce DF Clutch kit in my '69 back in 2011 and I've been real happy with it since.   Here is the thread I started on the subject and there are many positive responses ... 

Getting a lightly used clutch assy. for the cost of shipping from another forum member certainly helped in my decision to try it out and I'm real glad I did !!

Thanks again goes out to Tom (member 9350) for the clutch kit.

Doug 

[bryonbush 85]

So I'm going to jump on this thread since by summer I'll be in the same position.  Literally all I have on my car is a trans, clutch pedal, cable, and a floating z bar. I honestly couldn't tell ya what that z bar attaches to for stabilization as I've never had my own standard car. With that said, could some here suggest the parts to finish this out?

[barnett468 418]

23 minutes ago, bryonbush said:

So I'm going to jump on this thread since by summer I'll be in the same position.  Literally all I have on my car is a trans, clutch pedal, cable, and a floating z bar. I honestly couldn't tell ya what that z bar attaches to for stabilization as I've never had my own standard car. With that said, could some here suggest the parts to finish this out?

scott drake and npd are 2 places that sells the missing parts. i think the following is what you need. haven't done one for a while.

ball stud mounts on engine

ball stud plastic roller, felt washers, and retaining clip.

z bar return spring

clutch rod from bottom of z bar to end of clutch fork.

there may have also been a spring from the z bar to the clutch fork to trap the clutch rod.

push your clutch pedal to the floor then lift it back up. if it moves freely, you are also missing the under dash spring.

[barnett468 418]

If you use a diaphragm clutch you should remove the under dash spring then run a spring from the z bar to the clutch fork to trap the clutch rod.