Advice needed on 1969 F code 302 2v motor stock rebuild

[RudyK 20]

My '69 convertible currently has a (mostly) '79 2v 302 in it that I'm intending to replace with a numbers matching period correct stock motor. I'm planning to keep all the exterior of the engine both stock looking with numbers matching parts, but see how efficient I can make the motor with any non-visible upgrades to see how far beyond my motors original 210HP I can get. I'm planning the following internal upgrades:

- COMP Cams Ultra Pro Magnum 1.6 ratio 7/16 stud mounted roller rockers with Crower 0.865" short Polylocks, purely to clear stock valve covers
- COMP Cams roller cam and hydraulic lifters - something with a mild street performance, perhaps 270?
- Porting and polishing standard iron cast '69 heads with 1.6" exhaust and 1.9" intake valves
- Hypereutectic aluminium pistons and increasing compression ratio to either 10 or 10.5:1 on premium gas
- Hi-po cast exhaust manifolds (yes I know they're visibly different but still look pretty stock...)
- Port matching the standard 2v intake manifold and gasket to the ported heads
- Pertronix Igniter II points and coil replacement (will also do new HT leads at the same time)
- K&N air filter

This may sound a little odd, but I want to keep my original numbers matching Autolite 2100 carb (1.08 venturi) although I would consider a 1.33 venturi version if I can find one. I have the following questions I'm hoping for some advice on:

1 - I discarded the idea of a 347 stroker kit as restricting myself to the original 2v carb would not allow me to unleash the strokers full potential. Or is there a decent benefit to it anyway?
2 - Is porting, polishing and matching the heads and intake manifold going to achieve anything or just hurt low end torque?
3 - Likewise increasing the valves to 1.6" and 1.9"?
4 - Have I missed any other 'invisible' upgrades that would make more sense or are worth doing as well?

Much appreciate any advice you guys can give!

[RogerC 136]

The oem 2 barrel carb is going to limit how much improvement you'll actually see, not enough to justify the cost of your proposed mods IMO. A few others on here with more knowledge will chime in with some good advice.

[Rsanter 152]

Port and polish the heads.

upgrade to roller rockers or roller tip rockers.

upgrade to 65-6 hipo exhaust manifolds and port them for greater flow

peetronix ignition with high voltage coil. Paint coil to hide it

select  cam for a vehicle 1000 pounds heavier than yours. Basically select a torque cam like,would be used in an early bronco. This will give you the punch off the line you want to feel. You don’t have the carb to support the higher RPM

 

this is an engine combo that I have built many times, this was more popular when people were more key or strict on keeping their car stock or for people that want very stock apprearing cars

 

afternthis you can swap to a gear ratio of 3.00 or 3.25 if you have the 2.79 gears

[1969_Mach1 333]

After all those upgrades.  With the stock 2-barrel carb and intake (and exhaust man.), I don't think you will notice much improvement, if any.  Ford's stock exhaust manifolds are pretty much anemic as well.  I would definitely also include a new intake manifold and 4-barrel carb.  Weiand Stealth, or Weiand Street Warrior intake.  If you want stock, find a stock cast iron 4-barrel intake manifold.  Summit Racing's house brand 4-barrel carburetors are modeled after the Ford Autolite carburetors, so look similar.  I'd also look into short headers.

Instead of spending a lot of time on those cylinder heads, look into a pair of 1969 351W cylinder heads with the C9OE casting.  Larger ports, valves, and valve springs without all the additional work and money.  They have a 60cc combustion chamber, so double check your compression ratio.

*** I mention these things because, keep in mind, regardless of what motor you build, it will only be "period correct".  Numbers matching is gone as soon as the original engine is removed.  Unless you find the original motor, it will no longer be numbers matching. 

[RudyK 20]

Many thanks for your replies so far, much appreciate the advice. I've decided to start with porting the heads for flow and installing bigger valves, just dropped them off at my machine shop. I also already have the hi-po exhaust manifolds. I guess I could start with the original 2 barrel and always upgrade further to a 4 barrel if I don't make enough difference.

[1969_Mach1 333]

Since you are upgrading to screw in rocker studs and roller rocker arms, for valves, you can select 1.94" intake and 1.60" exhaust valves for a small block Chevrolet motor.  That's what I did with my 1969 351W.  They are more readily available and less expensive.  Do most of your port work on the exhaust ports.  On the intake ports, merely gasket match and clean up and extremely rough edges.  If there is a hump on the roof of the exhaust ports, it can be removed.  It takes time to remove that hump but, it opens the exhaust port a lot.

I would not have the cylinder heads machined until you have the correct valve springs for the cam you are using.  Most often, the valve guides and/or spring pockets need machine work to fit the valve springs.  This almost always occurs when upgrading to a hydraulic roller cam.

[TexasEd 188]

If you use the original style air cleaner it will hide the carb you have under it.

[69RavenConv 286]

FWIW, I was in a similar situation with my 302 vert a few years ago. I have a numbers matching car that I wanted to keep looking as it did in '69. Not concours but at least period correct.

I went with a roller cam  and roller rocker conversion mostly for reliability and longevity reasons, but I did go a bit more aggressive (Comp HR216/325-2S-12). I kept the stock compression, heads, and exhaust manifolds but added a dual exhaust (I have long tube headers but couldn't get happy with them so I shelved them). I had lost the original 2-barrel carb but had an Edelbrock F4-B intake so  I added a Holley 600 CFM and went 4-barrel. I added Pertronix ignition.

Now I would never argue that this is a sensible approach to adding real performance - the stock heads and exhaust manifolds are awful - but I did end up with a nice running engine with decent torque and I'm quite happy with it as a weekend cruiser. And to the untrained eye, it looks totally 1969 stock.

I have the original intake and a replacement Autolite 2100 carb on the shelf and I also entertain the notion of adding some better heads and headers at some point as well...so the options to move either way is always there.

[Rcodenewf 44]

I have a brand new set of Keith Black Hypers in a .030 overbore. Installed them in my engine but had to change them right away due to the twisted wedge heads.

Engine was never fired. Removed pistons on the stand.

http://www.jegs.com/i/United-Engine-Machine/648/KB115.030/10002/-1

 

Regards...John

[RudyK 20]

On 12/23/2017 at 1:12 AM, 69RavenConv said:

FWIW, I was in a similar situation with my 302 vert a few years ago. I have a numbers matching car that I wanted to keep looking as it did in '69. Not concours but at least period correct.

I went with a roller cam  and roller rocker conversion mostly for reliability and longevity reasons, but I did go a bit more aggressive (Comp HR216/325-2S-12). I kept the stock compression, heads, and exhaust manifolds but added a dual exhaust (I have long tube headers but couldn't get happy with them so I shelved them). I had lost the original 2-barrel carb but had an Edelbrock F4-B intake so  I added a Holley 600 CFM and went 4-barrel. I added Pertronix ignition.

Now I would never argue that this is a sensible approach to adding real performance - the stock heads and exhaust manifolds are awful - but I did end up with a nice running engine with decent torque and I'm quite happy with it as a weekend cruiser. And to the untrained eye, it looks totally 1969 stock.

I have the original intake and a replacement Autolite 2100 carb on the shelf and I also entertain the notion of adding some better heads and headers at some point as well...so the options to move either way is always there.

Hi Phil, much appreciate your reply and that Crane cam looks like a good option. Did you ever get it dyno'd? I've managed to find the largest 1.33 venturi 2100 2 barrel carb which I'll install on my 302. The stock 1.08 venturi 2100 provides only 287 CFM, whereas the 1.33 goes up to 424 CFM which should be good for a high torquer keeping below 5,500 RPM. I might even go to a 347 stroker for maximum torque...

[barnett468 418]

do not use comp cams lifters . the are total crap.

you must run between .035 and .043" of squish clearance. if your block is not zero decked, you will need to run a thinner head gasket . cometic makes them.  roller pivot reduces friction more than roller tip.

get block and crank machined for a 1 piece seal then use good synthetic oil with at least 1000 ppm of zddp or zddb. group IV ad Group IV oils are the best if all else is equal.

 

 

 

 

 

[barnett468 418]

On 12/24/2017 at 10:26 PM, RudyK said:

I might even go to a 347 stroker for maximum torque...

do not run 347 cubes with stock or even mildly ported 289 heads. if you want more cubes and insist on using those heads, use 331.