Help piecing together Sniper EFI

[Flanders 46]

I'm considering moving to EFI this winter (351W engine).  I like the Holley Sniper EFI setup (and Holley's support) so I'm leaning towards this.

I was going to get a new fuel tank with in-tank pump (22Gal, from Holley, comes with fuel pump) to make life easier, and I like the in-tank pump quietness.

For those who have gone this route, any advice or opinions on filter and lines?  Is it worth getting a new intake manifold? (currently have stock heads and exhaust manifolds)  I'd appreciate any tips or suggestions from those who have done the Sniper EFI conversion.

[Mike65 475]

I am interested in this one too as that is the system I want to put on my modded 302.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

I think the Holly tank is actually made by Tanks Inc, and is their EFI tank for a 69/70. It sure looks the same to me,  with the Tanks Inc (Walbro) GPA-4 pump. I have seen some of these "Holly" tanks that are only 16 gallons, instead of the larger 22 gallon Tanks Inc. size. By the way some people have complained about noise using the Walbro pump.

As far as fuel line, I intend to use a hard line, but something that is easy to bend, like CNC-625 cu/ni/fe 3/8 fuel line from agscompany. Hydraulics Direct sells most of the AN fittings. You will need a good flaring tool like TGR professional-flaring-degree-bending from TGR or Eastwood.

 You'll also need 3480-06-FOOT stainless steel braid ptfe hose from Pegasus Auto Racing for up at the throttle body. They also sell the fittings for this. 

Get a good vent valve for the tank like the TPV6 from Newton.  Don't forget an inertia switch like Ford XF3Z9341-AA, and run it with a relay like Novita RL44 40A from Auto Zone. Since the pump puts out 40psi (some are 60psi) you can get into trouble REAL quick if in an accident or rollover, so the inertia switch is cheap insurance.

I was going to go with FiTech, and they make a good and inexpensive product, but I've seen some complaints about noisy injectors and I don't always get the same answer from different techs at FiTech. Holly has a good bulletin board with a huge following and their techs have answered every question I threw at them. They do seem to have the advantage of the larger well established company with a deep knowledge base.

[Flanders 46]

Thanks Mach1 Driver -- I've seen some of your other EFI posts so you've been helpful!

Regarding the pump:  I can't find posts about the noise from the Walbro in-tank pumps.  I've heard the hum from external in-line pumps but thought the in-tank ones were pretty quiet.  That said, I do like the reviews from Aeromotive.  Kind of making a shopping list here:

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/69-70-mustang-stealth-fuel-tank/

I was hoping to keep the engine compartment looking fairly stock.  Stainless lines won't fit the bill, however I may be swayed to go stainless just for safety. 

Wiring kit for fuel pump:

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/premium-fuel-pump-wiring-kit/

Regulator:

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/efi-throttle-body-stealth-fuel-system/

Again, in the effort to keep things stealthy, where do folks mount the regulator?  The above regulator has the return line so seems like it must be mounted close to the throttle body.  Is that the case?

Also, I wasn't familiar with the vent valve until now.  Thanks for the TPV6 info, that will be pretty easy to tie into the tank vent.

[det0326 179]

4 hours ago, Flanders said:

 

Again, in the effort to keep things stealthy, where do folks mount the regulator?  The above regulator has the return line so seems like it must be mounted close to the throttle body.  Is that the case?

Also, I wasn't familiar with the vent valve until now.  Thanks for the TPV6 info, that will be pretty easy to tie into the tank vent.

The FiTech has a 58 PSI regulator in the throttle body and pretty sure the Sniper does too. No external regulator needed.

[Flanders 46]

Ha, thanks.  You're right, 58.5psi regulator built-in.  

I just need to get the 10micron in-line filter then.

regarding the tank vent -- I need to see if my '69 tank has a vent in it, or if the cap is vented already

[1969_Mach1 333]

Before you select your EFI system, is your car an automatic trans car?  If so does it use a kick down rod that connects to the carburetor like the FMx, C4, or C6 trans?  If you have any of these conditions, the Sniper EFI is not set up for Ford kick down linkage.  The only EFI I have seen that is set up to work with Ford kick down linkage are Holley's Terminator systems.

If I were to switch to EFI I would also install a single plane intake manifold like the Edelbrock Torker II or a used Holley Street Dominator.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

3 hours ago, Flanders said:

Regarding the pump:  I can't find posts about the noise from the Walbro in-tank pumps. 

I was hoping to keep the engine compartment looking fairly stock.  Stainless lines won't fit the bill, however I may be swayed to go stainless just for safety. 

det0326 above has a noisy Tanks Inc in-tank Walbro pump- right Dave?

The fuel line I recommended is not stainless, this material is much more ductile making it far easier to bend and flare, and even though there is some iron in it (fe), the nickle (ni) and copper (cu) make it rust and corrosion proof.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

1 hour ago, 1969_Mach1 said:

Before you select your EFI system, is your car an automatic trans car?  If so does it use a kick down rod that connects to the carburetor like the FMx, C4, or C6 trans?  If you have any of these conditions, the Sniper EFI is not set up for Ford kick down linkage.  The only EFI I have seen that is set up to work with Ford kick down linkage are Holley's Terminator systems.

Thanks, I've not heard that before. Does anyone know if a 4R70W has a similar kick down? I assume it does. I would think the manufacturers would have some work-around for this or they are removing a chunk of their market.

det0326 (Dave), was there any problem with your AOD?

[det0326 179]

3 minutes ago, Mach1 Driver said:

det0326 above has a noisy Tanks Inc in-tank Walbro pump- right Dave?

 

Yes Terry I sure do. I have tried everything I know to quieten it down but have not been able to. On initial prime it sounds like a nest of ill hornets, its not as loud when running but you can still hear it pulsing even over the dual Dynomax mufflers.   I have got to get that Aeromotive pump and try it. 

[det0326 179]

12 minutes ago, Mach1 Driver said:

Thanks, I've not heard that before. Does anyone know if a 4R70W has a similar kick down? I assume it does. I would think the manufacturers would have some work-around for this or they are removing a chunk of their market.

det0326 (Dave), was there any problem with your AOD?

I used a modified 1991 mustang TV cable and made the lever that bolts on the side of throttle shaft for geometry correction.  I understand tho that there is one made by Holly that will work but have no experience with it. 

[Flanders 46]

I'm a 4spd toploader, so should be good to go. 

And thanks for the tip on the noisy pump.  I'll aim for Aeromotive.

As the rest of my car is stock, I'm not sure if I'll get any advantage over moving to a single plane intake manifold.

[Mike65 475]

I am going to use the Spectra Premium F28DFI  22 gal fuel tank, which comes with a 68-77 GPH pump. Since I have to run all new fuel lines I was going to use NiCopp nickel/copper line which is easy to bend. According to their website it can be used for brake, fuel, & transmission lines & will not rust or corrode. 

http://agscompany.com/product-category/brake-fuel-transmission-lines/nicopp/coiled-tubing-nicopp/

[det0326 179]

8 minutes ago, Mike65 said:

I am going to use the Spectra Premium F28DFI  22 gal fuel tank, which comes with a 68-77 GPH pump. Since I have to run all new fuel lines I was going to use NiCopp nickel/copper line which is easy to bend. According to their website it can be used for brake, fuel, & transmission lines & will not rust or corrode. 

http://agscompany.com/product-category/brake-fuel-transmission-lines/nicopp/coiled-tubing-nicopp/

That's what i used, good stuff

[Shep69 149]

On 12/13/2017 at 11:04 AM, Flanders said:

I'm considering moving to EFI this winter (351W engine).  I like the Holley Sniper EFI setup (and Holley's support) so I'm leaning towards this.

I was going to get a new fuel tank with in-tank pump (22Gal, from Holley, comes with fuel pump) to make life easier, and I like the in-tank pump quietness.

For those who have gone this route, any advice or opinions on filter and lines?  Is it worth getting a new intake manifold? (currently have stock heads and exhaust manifolds)  I'd appreciate any tips or suggestions from those who have done the Sniper EFI conversion.

I have the FiTech unit on my 351w. No complaints yet. I used a braided line from my in tank pump to the unit and then used the original hard line as a return back to tank.

Most issues arise from poor installations , vacuum leaks from the intake and exhaust . Both the  Fitech and Holley products can suffer from electrical interference on ford motors as the ecu is close to the distributor. Try and keep the rpm signal wire away from the dizy and leads and you shouldn't have an issue. 

You can use a duel plane manifold but from all the info I've dug up the single planes work better on these style of Injection systems.  I'm using an edelbrock rpm manifold due to height limitations on the 69 with a shaker but thinking about milling the divide wall down simulator to the air gap style . I've read that's an easy fix. 

Plenty off good info on both Holley and Fitech FB pages. Holley now run their page so most negative comments generally get deleted. Funny that!!!

Good Luck Flanders. 

[1969_Mach1 333]

4 hours ago, Shep69 said:

You can use a duel plane manifold but from all the info I've dug up the single planes work better on these style of Injection systems.  I'm using an edelbrock rpm manifold due to height limitations on the 69 with a shaker but thinking about milling the divide wall down simulator to the air gap style . I've read that's an easy fix.

+1.  This is why I mentioned switching to a single plane intake manifold like an older Holley Street Dominator or the Edelbrock Torker II.  Also, when you think about how a carb works, based off of vacuum signal strength to it as each cylinder is on it's intake stroke. vs. EFI which is based on an averages of  A/F mixture from all cylinders (or only 4 which makes no sense), vacuum from all cylinders, plus TPS, RPM, and VSS signals, it's more understandable why these EFI systems operate a little better with single plane intake manifolds.  Actually, these are TBI systems, Throttle Body Injection.  The single plane intake provides a little more even A/F distribution to all cylinders than dual plane intake manifolds.  With all that said, I do not know if there is as much, if any, low RPM power loss with EFI on single planes vs. dual planes like occurs with carburetors.  If so, the Holley Street Dominator would be a better option than the Torker II. 

[Vicfreg 771]

Shep69, I am getting ready to do an FiTech on my 393 stroker.   I have a couple quick questions that may also apply to the Sniper install that Flanders is doing

1. Does not sound like you used the FiTech command module with the remote pump.  I have heard one of these run and it is quiet, so I am headed that way.   One issue there is where to run the vent line, not sure you had to deal with that?
2. If you used an ignition box where did you get the square wave tach reference signal from to send to FiTech system?  If you have a MSD or Pertronix III or other MSD distributor, you can use the coil negative as the FiTech tach reference.
3. Did you share water temperature sensors with the FiTech system and other stuff, like your dash?  I am using a VHX dash system, which has a 2 wire temperature sensor.  So, I need another temperature sensor for the FiTech system, and am looking for suggestions there
4. Did you buy the 400 hp or 600 hp FiTech system.  My engine is going to be around 425 - 450 HP, not sure the 400 HP FiTech system will be adequate
5. I will be using C-6, saw the other comment about the kick down lever, I was assuming I could use a Lokar or equivalent cable..

 

Thanks in advance for any hits/advice....

[Shep69 149]

3 hours ago, Vicfreg said:

Shep69, I am getting ready to do an FiTech on my 393 stroker.   I have a couple quick questions that may also apply to the Sniper install that Flanders is doing

1. Does not sound like you used the FiTech command module with the remote pump.  I have heard one of these run and it is quiet, so I am headed that way.   One issue there is where to run the vent line, not sure you had to deal with that?
2. If you used an ignition box where did you get the square wave tach reference signal from to send to FiTech system?  If you have a MSD or Pertronix III or other MSD distributor, you can use the coil negative as the FiTech tach reference.
3. Did you share water temperature sensors with the FiTech system and other stuff, like your dash?  I am using a VHX dash system, which has a 2 wire temperature sensor.  So, I need another temperature sensor for the FiTech system, and am looking for suggestions there
4. Did you buy the 400 hp or 600 hp FiTech system.  My engine is going to be around 425 - 450 HP, not sure the 400 HP FiTech system will be adequate
5. I will be using C-6, saw the other comment about the kick down lever, I was assuming I could use a Lokar or equivalent cable..

 

Thanks in advance for any hits/advice....

I'm not using the command module. I ended up using a pod style pump used in our Aussie falcons and fitted it to my tank. The command centre does have some issues but if you jump on the FB Fitech page there's some mods you can do. I think it relates to the pump overheating. I was going to get a command module but glad I didn't . Fitech and others sell an in tank setup that looks good. 

The rpm signal from the blue wire plugs into my 6al MSD module. I also have a tach plugged into the same spot and have no issues.

I purchased a thermostat housing with a port on top. That's were the Fitech temp sensor is. Might not be the best spot as the thermostat will be opening and closing but I've checked it with a temp gun and it's spot on . 

I went with the 600hp . The 400hp unit doesn't have timing control so take that into account if your going down that path. My motor is pretty stock and it works well.

I installed the Locar cable for my FMX kickdown and currently playing around with some brackets to make it work so it kicks down at half throttle. 

Hope that helps. 

Mark

[69Stanger408 82]

I went with the full set up, Sniper EFI, Dual Sync Distributor, and 69 Mustang fuel tank (comes with vent/roll over valve). I ran steel braided 6AN lines to a firewall mounted bulkhead. Then in-line fuel filter and return to/from carb. I have the Edelbrock performer intake, on top of the 408 crate from TriStar Engines. Ignition is controlled from the EFI and spark flows through MSD 8.5 wires via the MSD Master Blaster. The ECU on the EFI controls the 4R70W crate transmission (Blue Chip Package) from Performance Automatic.

[Vicfreg 771]

69 stanger.....Nice package!   What kind of flexplate and converter does the 4R70 use, and did you need to modify your transmission tunnel?  What kind of cross brace/support does it use?   

[Johns Summer of 69 14]

I would highly recommend that you have something on top to protect everything that is now on the top of the tank. Here is what I did for mine

[Shep69 149]

34 minutes ago, Johns Summer of 69 said:

I would highly recommend that you have something on top to protect everything that is now on the top of the tank. Here is what I did for mine

Good idea protecting the sender and lines. I positioned my pod pump so that the spare wheel sits over the top. This protects it and hides it away so you wouldn't even know it's there. 

[jingro 10]

I installed the MSD Atomic system in my car and I love it. I use an Areomotive A1000 pump which was much quieter than the Walbro I had installed with another system. With the MSD, you have to use flexible fuel line for the feed and I ran the original hard line for the return. I bought a cheap MSD knockoff distributor so the EFI could control the timing. I really like it. It doesn't have the tenability of the Holley, but for me, that is a good thing. I can't muck up the fuel tables by messing with it.  

[69Stanger408 82]

13 hours ago, Vicfreg said:

69 stanger.....Nice package!   What kind of flexplate and converter does the 4R70 use, and did you need to modify your transmission tunnel?  What kind of cross brace/support does it use?   

The converter is included in the Performance Automatic crate package. The flex plate is a performance automatic part #732-PA26467 (purchased through Jegs). I fabricated a custom mount and no modification was necessary for the trans tunnel. I did have to fabricate/machine the shifter brackets that attach to the trans as the clearance was too tight for the LOKAR shifter with the neutral safety switch, had to make the pivot point above same. All in all, pretty simple mods, made templates with poster board and traced to steel plate.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

On 12/17/2017 at 11:41 PM, 69Stanger408 said:

The ECU on the EFI controls the 4R70W crate transmission 

I'm a little confused by your statement- You still have an electronic transmission control like Baumann or similar I assume?