Potential Purchase But With A Possible Deal Killer

[copb8 97]

I came across a pristine '69 Mach 1 351C FMX that was gorgeous inside, outside, top, bottom and motor. Truly an exceptional car. It had gone through a very high dollar respray some years ago with a metallic candy apple red paint. I loved the car and thought the price was reasonable considering it's condition.

However there's what seems to be a deal-killer. On the passenger side there are 3 blemishes on the paint. A small rock chip on the top of the front fender crease. A 1.5" x 3" blemish on the leading edge of the door where it looks like it was opened too wide. And a 1" x 2.5" blemish where the car was significantly door dinged mid door on the crease. First problem is that the owner attempted to patch this issues himself and did a terrible job but I would take it to a professional to be fixed. And that's the  problem, can a very custom blend, high metallic content paint even be fixed to an acceptable level? 

you have to look closely at the pictures to see the blemishes. I real live they're very obvious.

[Cantedvalve 128]

Those aren't a big deal.  I'd negotiate some $ out of the deal to fix it, but those are not difficult to repair.  You will have to repainted the door and part( maybe the whole) side of the car, above the stripe, but I think the stripe helps you with a break point for continuity.

PS: 351C in a 1969?  Got any engine pics?

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

Seems that the owner, or whoever did the paint repair, did a very bad job. I think that makes it look worse than it really is. If its a BC/CC paint, it may be able to be repaired without painting the entire panel. If not, as Cantedvalve said, the door above the stipe will have to be painted.

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

Oh, if it is a REAL "Candy" paint job, repair of the area will not be possible. 

[MAC390 327]

Yes if it's real custom candy it's the whole side as you cannot blend it in.

I know all about this issue . I had a Corvette with candy paint on it. Two scratches and it was major.

[JET 445 43]

If it is a good deal just buy it, I would not pass on it just because of a few paint chips.

[copb8 97]

You are very right that the owner did a terrible job on the repair. As I said to my wife at the time, it looks like he use a putty knife to do it.

It's definitely a 'candy' custom finish that the prior owner spent a fortune on. Well worth it when you see it in the sun. A killer for this type of thing though.

Regarding the 351 Cleveland engine he definitely said it was one but now you have me rethinking it. I didn't specifically look to confirm. Your question makes me think that the 351C wasn't available in 69? 

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

The Cleveland was not used in the 69. A Cleveland water hose comes off the block and points up. A Windsor's water hose comes off the intake and points forward. 

[Bob & Sue 110]

That's going to cost some bucks to repair it, you'll definitely need a good custom shop to try to match the paint it can be done for a price. I wouldn't let it kill the deal, do a complete inspection of the car (on a rack) with oil analysis. Folks do a good job of hiding things.

I had a car with 3 coats of base & 3 coats of clear on it the hood had a 2" long ding on it from a branch it cost me $1200 10 years ago with the same painter to get it repainted luckily he still had the formula he used. 

I was just looking at C/L yesterday my old boat is on there the description has a few good lies like he was the 2nd owner I was the 3rd he had all the paperwork I gave him but still flat lied. Don't believe anything anyone says without documentation.

Cleveland parts are pricey if you can find them. 

[Brian Conway 264]

9 hours ago, JET 445 said:

If it is a good deal just buy it, I would not pass on it just because of a few paint chips.

Second that.  Your looking at buying  a used car.  Guaranteed you'll find more warts after the purchase.  With that in mind figure out what you think it is really worth to you.  Brian

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

The chips in the paint could be a deal killer if the car was to be a turn key show car. The touch ups do not help the visuals. To fix the Candy paint, the entire panel is going to have to be stripped and repainted in Candy to match the rest of the car. That is going to take time, and money. 

If its going to be a driver, its going to get more chips and dings in it. Candy paint is not for a driver.

[1969_Mach1 333]

First off, for a high dollar restoration it's got completely the wrong engine in it.  Ford did not install Cleveland motors until 1970.  Second, looking at that paint, to repair, very likely half the car would be repainted.  At that, you will probably see blend and color differences from side to side.

I agree with 69ShelbyGT350H, candy paint is not for a driver.  Only if it's purely a show car.

Unless the price is so low you can afford to repaint the entire car, (10K or so for a repaint), I'd pass on it.

[RPM 1,190]

23 minutes ago, 1969_Mach1 said:

First off, for a high dollar restoration it's got completely the wrong engine in it. 

Well, he did say respray and not restoration, don't know if the seller is presenting it as a restoration. Plenty of Clevelands were swapped into 69's as the 351C was probably one of the first engine swaps folks did prior to the wealth of parts available when the 5.0 came out. 

Ya, unless a hefty amount was knocked off the price would I consider buying it. 

[Bob & Sue 110]

How much is it? The price difference on Hagerty Values has a large swing in price from fair to excellent, $28,300 to $50,000.

NADA is $14,100 low retail $53,000 high retail.

Yah I know it's Hagerty & NADA values but it's a starting point if it needs paint & a cleveland engine would it be worth buying.

 

[copb8 97]

So by this pic it looks like the upper hose comes off the front of the intake towards the front so it's a Windsor. The car was always presented as refinished to a high level but not to original. It was presented as a matching numbers car and that the engine had extensive tuning by a pro shop. It certainly is far more 'finished' than my car.

All that said I think everyone's input has made me focus on how I'd want to use the car. And really, I want to drive it and enjoy it and not just show it. Like one of you also said, the type of paint job on this car is more for a show car than a driver as it's very unforgiving for touch ups, as we're seeing now. 

I love the '69 style the most but the 70 is my second favorite and Grabber Orange is absolutely my favorite color. I think I got all hyped up on the 69 and the condition and lost sight of the ball for a bit. Isn't the first time it's happened to me. I'm going to stick with my car and continue to make improvements over time.

Thanks everyone. This was very valuable info to me.

BTW, this probably won't be the last time I'm distracted by a shiny object. :-)

 

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

All depends on the price. For me, I'd take it less the cost of a total re-paint. And that includes taking the Candy off and using a more standard paint. The paint is already damaged, not good for a high end show car. Might work out well for a while to have a better touch up job on the spots and make it a (Sunday) driver. If it does have a numbers matching 351w it's worth more as an original car. If its the 351c, its good as a slightly modified. How much $$ ? Depends on how much the seller wants, and how badly the knowledgeable buyer wants it.

Unfortunately, this is a perfect example of someone modifying a car (in this case the "Candy" paint) to the point that it can hurt the car's value. But the seller does not see it that way.

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

4 minutes ago, copb8 said:

So by this pic it looks like the upper hose comes off the front of the intake towards the front so it's a Windsor. The car was always presented as refinished to a high level but not to original. It was presented as a matching numbers car and that the engine had extensive tuning by a pro shop. It certainly is far more 'finished' than my car.

All that said I think everyone's input has made me focus on how I'd want to use the car. And really, I want to drive it and enjoy it and not just show it. Like one of you also said, the type of paint job on this car is more for a show car than a driver as it's very unforgiving for touch ups, as we're seeing now. 

I love the '69 style the most but the 70 is my second favorite and Grabber Orange is absolutely my favorite color. I think I got all hyped up on the 69 and the condition and lost sight of the ball for a bit. Isn't the first time it's happened to me. I'm going to stick with my car and continue to make improvements over time.

Thanks everyone. This was very valuable info to me.

BTW, this probably won't be the last time I'm distracted by a shiny object. :-)

 

Yep, that's a Windsor. I have to be honest and say that engine bay does not look "High End" with all those green and red wires all over the place. Does look like someone did put a lot of parts in there though. it might make a good driver, but with the damaged paint, "High End" would have to be taken off the asking price.

[copb8 97]

Excellent input. As you guys have given input I think the $'s are too high at $43K considering some of it's challenges.

 

[1969_Mach1 333]

Good decision to pass it up.  Nice and shiny, but the quality of work under the hood is horrible.  Makes me wonder what the rest of the car is like.  Under the hood there are alot of shiny parts low quality parts and extremely sloppy careless work.  Looks like the car was built merely for resale purposes.

[Brian Conway 264]

FWIW;  There is a car for sale listed on the CJ Registry site that could be a good buy?  San Francisco Bay area, that's in California, asking 35K, has potential.  Not my car and I don't know the owner.  Looks like it could be a great driver/project ?  My post and paste doesn't seem to be working so no help there..  Brian

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

34 minutes ago, copb8 said:

Excellent input. As you guys have given input I think the $'s are too high at $43K considering some of it's challenges.

 

This is a truly interesting build. An odd mixture of original and aftermarket under the hood. Looks like he could not decide if he wanted to show it or race it. My opinion is that it does not work for either. The engine may be more performance for just a driver, but back to the paint, that is not for a driver or a race car. 

Sorry for re-hashing things, it's just the more I learn/see the more I am confused about what he wanted to do with the car and how he truly expects to get a high price from the sale. 

[copb8 97]

On 12/3/2017 at 3:46 PM, Brian Conway said:

FWIW;  There is a car for sale listed on the CJ Registry site that could be a good buy?  San Francisco Bay area, that's in California, asking 35K, has potential.  Not my car and I don't know the owner.  Looks like it could be a great driver/project ?  My post and paste doesn't seem to be working so no help there..  Brian

I'm really not looking for another car. I just saw this one and thought hmmm.....

If the right car and the right deal fell in my lap I may make the jump but if it doesn't happen I'll just continue to enjoy what I have.

Here's one last picture just for the hell of it. Not a good lighting shot since the sun was behind the car but it's still looks very nice

 

[bigmal 225]

Interesting reading the comments re Cleveland’s. Mine is a 2/69 car with a 70 Cleveland. I never found out why the swap and to be honest I would have preferred the original Windsor. I keep wondering whether I should consider swapping for a Windsor when it’s time for an engine rebuild