Long Tube Headers?

[69 Cruzin 4]

Running a complete stock 302 2V. Looking to add some sound and maybe pick-up a lil Horsepower by adding Long Tube Headers. I'm running flowmaster exhaust now and it sounds descent but looking for a lil more.

Did some research on shorty vs long tube and what I take from it is only real benefits of going with shorty is the ease of installation and more clearance.  Is this correct ? 

Also can anyone recommend a brand , type ( chrome, stainless,  ceramic, etc) or a good place to purchase? 

Any other advice or pics would be greatly appreciated.  

Thanks all.

[Bob & Sue 110]

The long tube Hooker headers like I had will have clearance problems the collectors on mine hit any speed bump I went over even small branches. I just started a thread on shorty hugger headers that won't need much if any mods to fit.

I'd contact someone like Speedway Motors for your application, I prefer the ceramic coat for heat transfer stainless looks good for a few months.

Instead of paying $600-$800 on headers for more power you could get something like Speedways for $200-$300. You'd gain more power on some upgrading distributor, new manifold & 4 barrel carb than the small amount gained by long tube tuned headers.

Just my opinion others will have some input.

[Vicfreg 771]

I have Patriot ceramic coated Tri-Y headers on my '68.  Running a 302 with manual trans.  Love the sound.  Went to cable clutch to avoid Z-bar interference.    On my 1970 using shorty headers due to my C-6 trans, which is very tight fit. 

[Mike65 475]

My 69 is lowered about 1" front & rear I am leaning towards either shorty's or mid length headers.

[69 Cruzin 4]

47 minutes ago, Vicfreg said:

I have Patriot ceramic coated Tri-Y headers on my '68.  Running a 302 with manual trans.  Love the sound.  Went to cable clutch to avoid Z-bar interference.    On my 1970 using shorty headers due to my C-6 trans, which is very tight fit. 

Are these simular with what you have?

https://www.cjponyparts.com/patriot-exhaust-tri-y-headers-ceramic-coated-260-289-302-1965-1970/p/EXHD10/

[69 Cruzin 4]

6 hours ago, Bob & Sue said:

The long tube Hooker headers like I had will have clearance problems the collectors on mine hit any speed bump I went over even small branches. I just started a thread on shorty hugger headers that won't need much if any mods to fit.

I'd contact someone like Speedway Motors for your application, I prefer the ceramic coat for heat transfer stainless looks good for a few months.

Instead of paying $600-$800 on headers for more power you could get something like Speedways for $200-$300. You'd gain more power on some upgrading distributor, new manifold & 4 barrel carb than the small amount gained by long tube tuned headers.

Just my opinion others will have some input.

Thanks for your input. Helpful.

[MN69Grande 203]

Here's a decent video.   I don't think with a stock 2v 302 you'll see noticeable additional power. But long tube headers will make the car sound different.  You say you have Flow master exhaust - how many and which mufflers?  What diameter tubing?  If you're running the 50 series and you're looking for noise you could go with the 40 series or a Magnaflow muffler. 

I've got Headman Shorties and like them.  I have the ceramic coated ones and after 5k miles they look as good as they did coming out of the box.  Louder than a manifold but quieter than long tubes.   No fitment issues at all but I went with Dynomax VTs which allow a quiet idle and cruise but get loud when rev'ing or accelerating.

 

[JET 445 43]

I have long tubes, I hate them,  they  really mess up your ground clearance. I would recommend tri-y's or shorties.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

If you look at the two videos on headers and cross overs, a 1-7/8 shorty with 2-1/2 collector will loose approximately 50 hp over a long tube. But if the long tube doesn't fit, the shorty gives some HP improvement (unspecified) without fitment issues.

Here's a huge difference: uncoated headers run at 870F, while ceramic run at 250F.

There is essentially no difference with or without crossovers. No crossover gives the most HP, followed by x-pipe with 0.2 less, and h-pipe at 1.5 less. The real difference is in the sound; no crossover burbles, while the x-pipe sounds meaner and shrieks at WOT. The h-pipe is considered the cheapest and easiest way to go with some sound improvement.

[Bob & Sue 110]

My stock ceramic coated manifolds run at about 350* on a hot day. I put them back on after the long tube tuned headers had clearance issues. Thats a big heat difference for all that manifold material ceramic is the only coating I'd use.

Tuned long tubes were never designed to run on the street the reason for long tubes is tuning purposes you can't get a shorty or tri-y tubes near the correct length ie all tubes must be the same length and flow tested to match your head setup.

 

Bob 

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Those of you with long tube headers seem to complain about clearance issues. I've just in been in contact with FPA who says "Our header is 1/2" below your stock frame rails". Does anyone know how that stacks up against yours? Thanks

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

11 hours ago, Mach1 Driver said:

Here's a huge difference: uncoated headers run at 870F, while ceramic run at 250F.

where did you get this info or how did you make this measurement?  I have ceramic coated headers and i'm measure 350 to 425F at idle (dependent on location to the fan....).

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

i don't believe headers need to be equal length.  by not being equal length, it simply means the reflected waves will happen at different times.  that means each cylinder sees the benefit at different RPMs (and also the bad at different RPMs). 

as an example, the power generated in cylinder 6 may get a positive bump at 2200 and 4400 rpm, while cylinder 7 gets the positive bump at 2300 and 4600 rpm.  with equal lengths and equal cylinder firings (which isn't possible on a V8 without crossing a cylinder from one bank to the other), there would be bigger peaks (and likewise bigger valley's) over the rpm range.  therefore with a fully equal length balanced setup, people could probably advertise higher peak power gains.  however if they averaged it over an RPM range and compared to an unequal length, there probably wouldn't be an average difference (this assumes the lengths aren't so different that the peaks occur at much different RPM bands).

however, having equal lengths may make "tuning" easier if every cylinder acts the same across the rpm band.

 

 

 

[Vicfreg 771]

69 Cruzin....yes those Patriot Tri-Ys look like exactly what I have.

MN69Grande - I also have the Hedmann Shorties for my '70 convertible, but have not installed them yet.  Any pictures would be appreciated of the transition between the headers and exhaust, crossover pipe, etc....

 

[Mach1 Driver 560]

12 hours ago, BuckeyeDemon said:

where did you get this info or how did you make this measurement?  I have ceramic coated headers and i'm measure 350 to 425F at idle (dependent on location to the fan....).

Its meant as a comparison of coatings using the exact same headers, but coated and uncoated. They start talking about it at 5:00 and give the results at 7:15. The temps were taken in the dyno room, so obviously there are many variables and temps in a car with wildly different weather conditions will vary greatly.

[Bob & Sue 110]

There are many factors that play into header temps if your just driving around or cruizin you're not burning much fuel, go WOT for a 1/4 mile or a few laps around a track it's a whole different scenario. 

Coated ceramic is better you want to get the heat out the pipe not in the engine compartment.

I've never personally checked header temp with a heat gun next year I'll take some readings on a couple cars right after a run just out of curiosity.   

edit; I have used a heat gun to find which plug has failed no fuel burn no heat cold header tube. 

[2poniesngarage 4]

All I can add to this is dont use hooker long tube headers. Unless you want to work your azz off bending them away from the frame on the drivers side. And cussing the bolts on the first and second ports cause you cant get a wrench or socket or allen wrench on them to get them tight enough to keep them from leaking. Coming from someone who knows. If I had it to do again shorty's just isnt worth the headaches to do long tubes. IMAO.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

11 hours ago, Mach1 Driver said:

Its meant as a comparison of coatings using the exact same headers, but coated and uncoated. They start talking about it at 5:00 and give the results at 7:15. The temps were taken in the dyno room, so obviously there are many variables and temps in a car with wildly different weather conditions will vary greatly.

you can't use that type of temperature sensor on "shiny" metal.  it will read much lower than reality. 

they are getting false low readings on those coated headers.  i'm not saying there isn't an improvement, just not what they are claiming.

[Vicfreg 771]

My Shorty Hedmann headers on my 393 stroker...not installed yet

 

 

post-45109-0.pdf

[Mach1 Driver 560]

13 hours ago, BuckeyeDemon said:

you can't use that type of temperature sensor on "shiny" metal.  it will read much lower than reality. 

they are getting false low readings on those coated headers.  i'm not saying there isn't an improvement, just not what they are claiming.

Agreed. I would think that since the engine is in the dyno room and not stuffed into an engine compartment it can dissipate the heat better too. If you use 400F as a more conservative low number and their high of 870F, the difference is still significant at around 470F. I'm definitely getting ceramic coated headers.

[69 Cruzin 4]

Thanks All for the very useful info on header options. Learned alot.....I think my best bet will be the ceramic Tri-Y's. 

Very thankful for this forum 

 

[cavboy78 28]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 5:39 PM, Mach1 Driver said:

Those of you with long tube headers seem to complain about clearance issues. I've just in been in contact with FPA who says "Our header is 1/2" below your stock frame rails". Does anyone know how that stacks up against yours? Thanks

I can measure mine, but I have not had interference/clearance issues with my FPAs. I have motor mounts that drop the engine 1", so may be a little lower than 1/2" below framerails, but nothing like some of the other longtubes I've seen.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

2 hours ago, cavboy78 said:

I can measure mine, but I have not had interference/clearance issues with my FPAs. I have motor mounts that drop the engine 1", so may be a little lower than 1/2" below framerails, but nothing like some of the other longtubes I've seen.

Thanks, that would be great. What motor and tranny do you have in your 70? I'm guessing you dropped the motor because you swapped the tranny?

[cavboy78 28]

Its a 351w and T5. I primarily used the drop mounts because I was concerned about hood clearance with the air gap intake. It's close...I'll give a measure later today.

[Rsanter 152]

Long tube headsers and bigger primary tubes are for higher RPM applications.

for general street around town performance I would use the tri Y or shorty headers

 

bob