Alternator amp with dual spal electric fans

[Sean D 31]

Please help, as I know some of you are running electric fans or have great knowledge. What amp alternator do you think I need to run these dual spal electric fans on my 69 Mach 1? And what mods (wiring?) do I need to work with it?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-cu-70039/overview/year/1969/make/ford/model/mustang

I believe each fan pulls a max draw of 7.3, so a total of 14.6 amps. I will be running vintage air ac, stock lights front and back, and smallish radio. Engine will be 408w with all new stock wiring harnesses.

Also what other mods do you think I need? I read about upgraded 6 or 4 gauge fused charging wire, 3g alternator upgrade, convert ammeter to voltage meter, etc.

For example is this 3g upgrade regulator box and wiring kit overkill for my setup, and if so what is my alternative: https://www.cjponyparts.com/pa-performance-alternator-conversion-kit-allows-use-of-3g-130-amp-alternator-1965-1985/p/ALTCK/

Oh and do you think the fan radiator combo will cool well in stop and go traffic?

[Mach1 Driver 560]

If you know how to use Microsoft Excel you can figure it out pretty quick. I made a spreadsheet that adds up all the loads in my stock 69 Mach. There are around 94 amps possible with everything on, but only around 50 amps probable as a constant draw. 

To see the spreadsheet go to How To's, A REAL Schematic, and it is attached with the schematic pages as Mustang Amps.xls.

[Sean D 31]

15 hours ago, Mach1 Driver said:

If you know how to use Microsoft Excel you can figure it out pretty quick. I made a spreadsheet that adds up all the loads in my stock 69 Mach. There are around 94 amps possible with everything on, but only around 50 amps probable as a constant draw. 

To see the spreadsheet go to How To's, A REAL Schematic, and it is attached with the schematic pages as Mustang Amps.xls.

Thank you for the reply and I will use it to get max and constant amps.

What I need to know is, at what max amps (65amp, 100amp, 140amp, etc.) do I need to start upgrading/convert alternator wiring and charging wiring, convert ammeter to voltage meter, etc.? And what are the options? 

Oh and do you think the fan radiator combo will cool well in stop and go traffic?

[Mach1 Driver 560]

I'm sure other guys have done the conversions and can recommend some parts- I would go as big as you can. Although the fans won't be on all the time with a good controller, they will add substantially to the load. Upgrade the charging harness to the biggest you can get. It isn't necessary to change the ammeter, but can't hurt. I don't remember mine ever working.

As for the fans- do your research and find what works. I've been looking at the stock fan and shroud since day one and prefer to keep that look. I will upgrade to the H C9WE-C seven blade with a clutch when I stroke the motor, but that's about it.

[det0326 179]

I have the 2 fan setup similar to the one you posted. I think mine are 12" spal fans. I have 351w mild built non stroked. They cool extremely well.  I have 95 amp alternator from a 1991 bronco. I cut the harness off the bronco and used on the mustang it had 2 number 8 wires paralleled together for the charge wire but a single number 4 wire will be fine.  I only used the 2 number 8 because it was already there. In 90 to 100 degree heat in SC this past summer in stop and go traffic I never had but one fan cycling on and off.

[Vicfreg 771]

I have a 140 amp alternator. Using AAW aftermarket harness.  Will feed 2-12" NASCAR (Maradyne) fans,PWM fan controller, a fan powered trans cooler, vintage air, Rockford Fosgate 400 watt power amp, FiTech Go EFI system, Pertronix digital ignition module, etc.  

I agree with some of the other comments, go with the biggest alternator that is practical for your build.  

You can check out my project details on my 1970 Convertible Project Forum post.

 

[danno 128]

Hey Mach1 Driver, how would I get that excel file?   I am just curious, I have been running a lot of heavy loads on a standard Ford 60 amp alternator, and never had any problem.  I am running halogen lights, AC, huge audio amps, etc.  I do not have electric fans, and I know those are a power hog. 

[Mach1 Driver 560]

9 hours ago, danno said:

Hey Mach1 Driver, how would I get that excel file?  

As I already said, its here on this forum. Look under "How To's". I believe its the first pinned topic titled "A REAL Schematic". There are a total of five attachments. The one you want is titled "Mustang Amps.xls".

[bryonbush 85]

look into a soft start fan controller like Flexalite. They will bump the fans on slowly so it wont overload the system upon startup where most your power will be drawn. over on the VMF there's a topic that covers how much power the fans pulled upon startup and if I remember right, it was close to double what the fans would pull once running.

[Vicfreg 771]

I have a soft controller (PWM) from a supplier called the "Auto Cool Guy".  He provides these to the military and commercial vehicles.  Works great, and available with an inline temperature sensor.   Industrial grade electronics, different models can handle up to 125 amps.  

[Sean D 31]

Guys, 

Do you think this radiator and electric fan combination with a combined 1616max cfm will cool my 408w?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-cu-70039/overview/year/1969/make/ford/model/mustang

Sean

[barnett468 418]

5 hours ago, Sean D said:

Guys, 

Do you think this radiator and electric fan combination with a combined 1616max cfm will cool my 408w?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-cu-70039/overview/year/1969/make/ford/model/mustang

Sean

start your own thread as you will likely get more replies but there will be LOTS of questions.

 

[RPM 1,190]

14 hours ago, barnett468 said:

start your own thread as you will likely get more replies but there will be LOTS of questions.

 

From what I see, Sean did start this thread. No?

[barnett468 418]

38 minutes ago, RPM said:

From what I see, Sean did start this thread. No?

duhhh...oops . i just looked at the dates and figured it was a new poster, lol.

 

 

[barnett468 418]

20 hours ago, Sean D said:

Guys, 

Do you think this radiator and electric fan combination with a combined 1616max cfm will cool my 408w?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-cu-70039/overview/year/1969/make/ford/model/mustang

Sean

 

those fans sound like they are crap to me . need more info on them.

you should use a fan controller with electric fans.

does it run hot now?

if it runs hot now, how hot and under what conditions?

what is your current setup below?

water pump?

thermostat temp?

high flow or standard t stat?

stamped steel or brass t stat?

all radiator info?

do you want a fancy stamped aluminum shroud?

is there a spring in your lower hose?

 

 

 

 

[Vicfreg 771]

I spent a lot of time on this myself and the limiting factor was the small distance between my radiator fans and the water pump pulley.  I used a DeWitt direct fit aluminum radiator with low profile Maradyne 12" fans.   I used a PWM controller with an in line temperature sensor.   Details on my build forum....

[barnett468 418]

a ford contour/cougar dual fan often fits narrow spaces.

[barnett468 418]

he's laughing at me.

i hope your house air conditioner breaks in july.

[Sean D 31]

On 3/2/2018 at 11:13 AM, barnett468 said:

 

those fans sound like they are crap to me . need more info on them.

you should use a fan controller with electric fans.

does it run hot now?

if it runs hot now, how hot and under what conditions?

what is your current setup below?

water pump?

thermostat temp?

high flow or standard t stat?

stamped steel or brass t stat?

all radiator info?

do you want a fancy stamped aluminum shroud?

is there a spring in your lower hose?

 

 

 

 

Hi Barnett,

No problems, I do not have my engine yet as it is being built which is this one: https://craftperformanceengines.com/Item/crateengines-street-sbf-408-418. But I will try to answer your questions as much as I know right now. I also did not mention that I will be running A/C.

you should use a fan controller with electric fans. I think the Griffin kits I mentioned: http://www.griffinrad.com/load_details9.php?PartID=87&id=CU-70039&year=68&make=Ford&model=Mustang&key_id=CU-70039 comes with Electric Fan Wiring Harness / Includes: 185 Deg. Temperature Sensor, Relay, and Inline Fuse but it does not mention fan controller, however it does have relays. You have any information on this that I can research?

does it run hot now? Not installed yet

if it runs hot now, how hot and under what conditions? not sure yet

what is your current setup below?

water pump? Edelbrock aluminum driver side 

thermostat temp? havent purchased yet but the radiator/fan kit includes 185 degree sending unit

high flow or standard t stat? not yet purchased but would love your thoughts

stamped steel or brass t stat? not yet purchased but would love your thoughts

all radiator info?  http://www.griffinrad.com/load_details9.php?PartID=87&id=CU-70039&year=68&make=Ford&model=Mustang&key_id=CU-70039

do you want a fancy stamped aluminum shroud? do not require it, but is noice

is there a spring in your lower hose? definately an option but have not purchased hoses yet.

 

Additionally, the griffin radiator/fan kit is one option, but would love input if it will cool adequately and if not what you suggest. I am open...

[barnett468 418]

ask them how far the engine will be bored out and the static compression.

there is no amp rating on the griffen fans so no one can tell you much about them but i doubt they flow a lot.

this guy makes one of the best fan controllers . i prefer the variable speed one. tell him which fans you plan to use and he will tell you if you need the resistor kit he sells.

http://www.dccontrol.com/

 

unless you live in alaska, i would run a 180 t stat. milodon makes an xlnt high flow one p/n 16401. summit racing also has them

https://www.amazon.com/Milodon-16401-High-Degree-Thermostat/dp/B002XKPDH0

 

used original ford contour and cougar V6 engine fans and taurus and lincoln fans work better than most others. the contour/cougar fan uses t fans and is shallower than the taurus and lincoln. they are getting extremely hard to find but i just bought one on ebay 3 weeks ago.

 

 

 

[Sean D 31]

2 hours ago, barnett468 said:

ask them how far the engine will be bored out and the static compression.

there is no amp rating on the griffen fans so no one can tell you much about them but i doubt they flow a lot.

this guy makes one of the best fan controllers . i prefer the variable speed one. tell him which fans you plan to use and he will tell you if you need the resistor kit he sells.

http://www.dccontrol.com/

 

unless you live in alaska, i would run a 180 t stat. milodon makes an xlnt high flow one p/n 16401. summit racing also has them

https://www.amazon.com/Milodon-16401-High-Degree-Thermostat/dp/B002XKPDH0

 

used original ford contour and cougar V6 engine fans and taurus and lincoln fans work better than most others. the contour/cougar fan uses t fans and is shallower than the taurus and lincoln. they are getting extremely hard to find but i just bought one on ebay 3 weeks ago.

 

 

 

Thank you Barnett...I believe the compression is 10:1 and I will find out exact bore. Is the Griffen radiator something you would recommend? Also, I believe the SPAL fans that come with the Griffen kit each fan pulls a max draw of 7.3, so a total of 14.6 amps. Will these not pull enough air? It says around 1600 CFM. Maybe I can upgrade the fans to higher amperage SPAL fans.

Also are these the contour fans you are buying: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Four-Seasons-Radiator-and-Condenser-Fan-Motor-Assembly-Dual-75282/332027252648?fits=Make%3AFord|Model%3AContour&epid=75470806&hash=item4d4e5dcfa8:g:WpIAAOSw~HBaAcz-&vxp=mtr

What is required the purchase if we go the contour route? fan controllers, wiring harness. does anyone sell a complete kit or atlease has description of what to purchase?

[barnett468 418]

45 minutes ago, Sean D said:

Thank you Barnett...I believe the compression is 10:1 and I will find out exact bore. Is the Griffen radiator something you would recommend? Also, I believe the SPAL fans that come with the Griffen kit each fan pulls a max draw of 7.3, so a total of 14.6 amps. Will these not pull enough air? It says around 1600 CFM. Maybe I can upgrade the fans to higher amperage SPAL fans.

Also are these the contour fans you are buying: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Four-Seasons-Radiator-and-Condenser-Fan-Motor-Assembly-Dual-75282/332027252648?fits=Make%3AFord|Model%3AContour&epid=75470806&hash=item4d4e5dcfa8:g:WpIAAOSw~HBaAcz-&vxp=mtr

What is required the purchase if we go the contour route? fan controllers, wiring harness. does anyone sell a complete kit or atlease has description of what to purchase?

griffen rads are good.

i wouldn't trust those fans to cool it. you can get spal fans on amazon pretty reasonable some times. they make higher flow fans but the extreme fans are not designed to run full time . i also don't know if the spal fans can be run at less than max power . you can email the guy at the fan controller and ask him about running the spa fans at variable speeds.

i do not buy the new oem fans . the used ones are the ones that flow the most air.

i don't know exactly what you mean by  a complete kit but you usually have to make a couple wires no matter what you buy.

[Sean D 31]

HI barnett,

Again thank you for the information. What I mean by complete kit, in addition to the contour fan assembly itself, what else is required to install? Is it just the kit (controller and accessories) that DCC sells? What type of brakets do people use to attach it to the radiator? Trying to fish through all the information on the different website forums is almost mind boggling! You want to sell your fans you recently acquired? :-)

not including the new aftermarket replacement options (which there seems to be alot of them) I did find this one, but no wiring harness included: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radiator-Fan-Motor-Fan-Assembly-Dual-Fans-Fits-99-02-COUGAR-192063/372139652279?fits=Make%3AFord|Model%3AContour&hash=item56a54074b7:g:I~0AAOSwi0xaD1OQ

also this one that has wiring harness: https://www.ebay.com/itm/99-00-01-02-COUGAR-RADIATOR-FAN-MOTOR-FAN-ASSEMBLY-DUAL-FANS-77783/282508871771?fits=Make%3AFord|Model%3AContour&hash=item41c6d7485b:g:xDcAAOSwcgNZM8dG

With both there is no telling if they work or not.

This seems to be a pretty good write up, but does not use DCC controller & wiring: http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/cooling-articles/482048-junkyard-upgrade-dual-electric-fans.html

And I also found this, do you thin DCC still sells it: http://www.dccontrol.com/33212info.htm

Thoughts?

[barnett468 418]

ok, the second fan listed with the wiring harness looks like it may come with a 30 day warranty but you should verify that and ask it there is a restocking charge. the seller has 100% positive feedback so that's a plus. the car the fan came off of had 121,000 miles which isn't bad. these fans often run for 150,000 or more but one with lower miles like around 80,000 would be a little better. the problem with that one is the $72.00 for shipping. I paid around $100.00 with free shipping.

i can post a few links to salvage yards that you ca also check.

i am keeping the fan i got.

i don't think dcc has any more of that particular fan but you can ask him. it may take up to 5 days before he gets back to you, but again, if it is a new fan, i for one would not use it.

if you use the contour fan, you need the resistor at the bottom of his parts page and i would buy the wiring harness he sells. it will take him around 2 weeks to make the controller so plan on around 3 weeks to get it once you order it.

that is a good write up and there are many others if you search the net. there are several ways to mount it. another one is to make L brackets or just buy them at home depot. they are used for shelving and wood working etc.

you can also buy aluminum shrouds and buy spal fans to fit them but that gets a little pricey, however, since you are getting an engine from keith, it doesn't seem like cost is a major concern, lol.

 

 

 

[Sean D 31]

On 3/10/2018 at 11:30 AM, barnett468 said:

ok, the second fan listed with the wiring harness looks like it may come with a 30 day warranty but you should verify that and ask it there is a restocking charge. the seller has 100% positive feedback so that's a plus. the car the fan came off of had 121,000 miles which isn't bad. these fans often run for 150,000 or more but one with lower miles like around 80,000 would be a little better. the problem with that one is the $72.00 for shipping. I paid around $100.00 with free shipping.

i can post a few links to salvage yards that you ca also check.

i am keeping the fan i got.

i don't think dcc has any more of that particular fan but you can ask him. it may take up to 5 days before he gets back to you, but again, if it is a new fan, i for one would not use it.

if you use the contour fan, you need the resistor at the bottom of his parts page and i would buy the wiring harness he sells. it will take him around 2 weeks to make the controller so plan on around 3 weeks to get it once you order it.

that is a good write up and there are many others if you search the net. there are several ways to mount it. another one is to make L brackets or just buy them at home depot. they are used for shelving and wood working etc.

you can also buy aluminum shrouds and buy spal fans to fit them but that gets a little pricey, however, since you are getting an engine from keith, it doesn't seem like cost is a major concern, lol.

 

 

 

Hi Barnett,

Again thank you alot for your advice, it is greatly appreciated!

Craft got back with me and the block is 4.030" and compression will be 9.9:1.

Do you think this Motorcraft contour replacement assembly is a decent alternative to a junkyard oem unit.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Cooling-Fan-Motor-Motor-Fan-Assy-Engine-Cooling-MOTORCRAFT-RF-81-/112312147805?hash=item1a26535f5d

I also found this oem fan assembly, that I think is same as countor's but not sure as its part number is 95bb 8c607 GG instead of GE. I think the ford Mondeo is what this is for. But the listing shows it is compatible with contour. What do you think?

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OUT-OF-BOX-OEM-Ford-95BB-8C607-GG-Electric-Cooling-Fan/182683775478?hash=item2a88cd31f6:g:HLoAAOSw6B5ZdiC4&vxp=mtr

Also do you know if this Griffin radiator has tubes at 3/8" on center, as I cannot find details anywhere. I know this is what you recommend and according to other posts you have dealt with Griffin personally in the past.  http://www.griffinrad.com/load_details3.php?PartID=87&year=1969&make=Ford&model=Mustang&key_id=7-70039