Chassis reinforcement and torque box replacement

[1BAD351 21]

Hey all, it's been a while and a rough 5 years or so with almost losing my father, but after many months/years of hospital time and recovery he's doing well. I'm still fighting to get my 69 coupe on the road that I've owned since November 9th of 2002 (yes of course I know the date I brought her home). My father and I pulled the trigger and unfortunately sold our 69 fastback last year because we knew there was no way both projects were going to get done. That being said the focus is now on my 69 coupe.

The car isn't a total rust bucket but it has some issues being a NJ car its whole life. Front subrails are shot, as well as the front torque boxes. I've already done a drivers side frame patch near the bumper mount so I'm assuming once I get the torque boxes out the lower part of the front frame rails will be shot also. The rockers are also rotted, as well some of the rear wheel well possibly more (can't fully tell the extent of the damage because someone loaded it with body filler).

All that being said we got quotes to have this all repaired and there are just astronomical numbers being thrown out there. SO! Time to learn how to do this myself. The first major question I have is can I do this on jack stands the right way? My fear is the body collapsing in once I cut all this out (one side of a time of course) or some flex happening and me welding stuff back in crooked. I have also been doing some reading and it looks like some guys like to add convertible rockers and seat bracing under the car. I know some shy away from the rockers because it requires them being tied into the torque boxes, but since I'll have mine out would this make it easier to do? I also read the seat bracing restricts exhaust room and may not be a good idea. The car does have subframe connectors but I'd like as much support as I can get as long as it makes sense to do. She's no grocery getter and will see some chassis twisting on launches. It will be a street car, but will not be driven lightly.

P.S. The drivers control arm has also punched a hole through my shock tower. I'm hoping to be able to smash that back into place and weld some support on the tower to fix it. Just have to get in there and access the damage.

TIA

[Mike65 475]

1BAD351, I have owned my 69 Coupe since Jan 2001 & didn't start doing body work on it until early 2010 & I finished it up 8/2016. My Coupe has also been a NJ car all its life too & had quite a few rust issues. Check out my build thread in the project progress section & you will see all the metal work I had to do to mine. I taught myself how to weld & do body work. You can add the convertible rockers, but the floor pan will most likely need to modified along with the new torque boxes.  Check out Latoracing's build thread he installed convertible rockers on his Fastback along with a new full floor. You could also install sub frame connectors instead of the convertible rockers. When I did the front torque boxes I had the front of my car on jack stands & I removed one & replaced one at a time, do NOT cut out to much metal. Good luck with your project.

 

[bigmal 225]

Hi 1BAD351 I am in the middle of modifying my Mach 1 to right hand drive with some chasis rust repairs. I changed both torque boxes, both sets of seat frame rails and the RH from chasis rail. I had no issue with doing it on stands although the front became very light. I had to drain the fuel tank part way through as it kept lifting. Had a few scares here. Before I cut out the sections I made up some jigs which attached to the steering and engine mount points. In hind site I would have also made one across the top of the shock towers as well. If I was doing both front chasis rails I would do them one at a time using the jigs as it made it simple to keep the alignment. I bought one piece torque boxes but cannot see how they could possibly be fitted without separating them. Buy two piece. Don't forget to check that all anchor nuts are welded in place before fitting the replacement parts. I missed a few and it was a little tricky fitting them later. Also check your torque box has the guide fitted for the park brake cable.

If you have a look at my thread on:

there are photos of what I did with these parts. All in all not too hard a job if you're handy with a tig and have a few weeks to spare.

[1BAD351 21]

I have a monte carlo bar and solid tower brace from firewall to towers, also subframe connectors. My engine is also currently installed, should the drivetrain be removed before attempting this or can it be done with the drivetrain in the car?

[1BAD351 21]

In fact, does anyone have chassis measurements? So I can measure point to point to make sure nothing is tweaked? I think my tower bar is bent now after the control arm came through the tower, so I'm a bit worried something else is bent.

[bigmal 225]

20 minutes ago, 1BAD351 said:

I have a monte carlo bar and solid tower brace from firewall to towers, also subframe connectors. My engine is also currently installed, should the drivetrain be removed before attempting this or can it be done with the drivetrain in the car?

You will definately need to take out the engine an trany. The service manual I have has very limited measurements. Basically across the front chaisis rail so not much help. If your car is strait just take lots of measurements before you start. And I am by no means an expert. This is my first time working on a Stang so learning as I go.

I found the more I took out the more I wanted to spruce it up. A good opportunity to paint everything and fix the little bits of rust I didn't know about.

[1BAD351 21]

5 minutes ago, bigmal said:

You will definately need to take out the engine an trany. The service manual I have has very limited measurements. Basically across the front chaisis rail so not much help. If your car is strait just take lots of measurements before you start. And I am by no means an expert. This is my first time working on a Stang so learning as I go.

I found the more I took out the more I wanted to spruce it up. A good opportunity to paint everything and fix the little bits of rust I didn't know about.

That's my fear. I don't have the money to fix it the way I want to. I'd love to blast and paint everything, add extra bracing etc. but budget and time just won't allow it. At this point I just want to get the car back on the road. It's been sitting too long and if I wait until I can do everything how I would want, I'll be dead before that happens.

[bigmal 225]

2 minutes ago, 1BAD351 said:

That's my fear. I don't have the money to fix it the way I want to. I'd love to blast and paint everything, add extra bracing etc. but budget and time just won't allow it. At this point I just want to get the car back on the road. It's been sitting too long and if I wait until I can do everything how I would want, I'll be dead before that happens.

I found it took me around 12 long days to get it stripped and the new parts welded in. Allow a 2 days to paint the area and probably would take another 3 days to put it back together. I'm sure those who have done it before could do it quicker. I would hate to be paying the labor for this. As for sprucing things up there is not a lot of cost with paint for the engine and accessories but it all takes time. Got to say I'm loving every minute of it.

[1BAD351 21]

Well I only have access to wire wheels and rattle cans. Which really isn't the best way of sanding and painting. I guess better than nothing but I hate when things aren't done right. The other major issue I have is I only have a flux core welder and I'm a novice. So with something like this I would not trust my welds and am not sure that's even the right welder to be using. But I'm thinking of maybe trying to find someone to come do some on site welding once I get it all apart and in place, or maybe get lucky enough to find a friend to help out once I'm ready to weld it up.

Thoughts on that? I'm thinking most of the labor is the cutting apart, fitting panels, drilling spot welds and cleaning up rust.

[Rsanter 152]

I had a friend that could not weld and I was helping him out. He would take everything apart, clean it up. Get the new panel installed with clamps (and sometimes pop rivets). Then I would come in and weld everything up.

 

i have another friend that has the flux core welder and can't weld for shit. He does the same thing and tac welds everything in place then I come over and weld it up properly

 

bob

[1BAD351 21]

I like that idea. I think that's the route I may go. It should save the $10k in labor to do all this and then I also know it's done right. I'm starting to rethink my profession after seeing the labor rates these shops charge.

[bigmal 225]

I always use projects like this to upgarde my tooling. Got a really nice TIG welder and a new 3 cylinder compressor this time. Not to mention all the smaller stuff. A reasonable 180 to 200 amp MIG welder is not that expensive and if you have someone to teach you how to use it it's not too hard to pick up. With some projects I've bought equipment on EBay and sold it at the end. Sometimes making a profit along the way.

[1BAD351 21]

I agree; generally I do the same. I buy the tools and learn myself. I've got a fair amount now but nothing like what a shop would have. Ill have to see if I can find someone willing to help me out.

[bigmal 225]

It's a little far for me to offer.

[1BAD351 21]

Haha thanks for the thought but I wasn't probing for someone here to help. Just talking out loud.

[mustangmike6996 34]

I found a great price on a used Lincoln 220v welder on Craigslist.  If you keep your eye open you can get a nice 110v MIG (stay away from the cheap Harbor Freight flux core welder).  For the small cost of the welder, it will pay for itself and you can sell it once you are done using it.  As for freshening up the frame/engine bay, clean all of the rust you can now.  Use etching primer and paint the engine bay.  Its not only for looks but it is to prevent the spread of more rust.  I would suggest not going with a gloss paint (I made that mistake)

 

 

[1BAD351 21]

Well I have a $400 Lincoln Electric Flux core 110v now. It's actually pretty dang good for what it is. But even if I bought a better and proper welder for the job, I would not want to practice my first job doing frame repair haha. I think my best bet at this point is to find a friend or even hire someone to come out to the car once I'm ready for a few welds. The car needs somewhere around $10,000 in frame repair easily. Bad as that sounds it's all in the time taking it all apart. so I think if I can do that myself I should be able to get this done for less than $2,000.

I think the car will need a quarter out back too because someone globed body filler all over to the point where the seam from rocker to quarter is non existent. So unfortunately I'll be destroying my paint job cutting that out, but maybe I can get someone to blend it best they can, or maybe put a retro 60's vinyl graphic over the primer until I can afford a repaint. Cheesy I know, but we do what we have to. What's a shame is the paint on the car is actually pretty nice. A cheaper repaint I did 10+ years ago, but it looks good. One of those it looks nice but I'm also not afraid to drive the car type deals. All my body panels have some sort of rust on them so a door ding although I would be upset, would not be the end of the world.

[RPM 1,190]

4 hours ago, 1BAD351 said:

Well I have a $400 Lincoln Electric Flux core 110v now. It's actually pretty dang good for what it is. But even if I bought a better and proper welder for the job, I would not want to practice my first job doing frame repair haha. 

Don't laugh, many folks make critical welds their first welds. I'm happy to see that you're smart enough to know better. I've never owned or used a flux core machine, but other folks on Mustang forums say they aren't too well suited for thin sheet metal work. Imho, a non welder should be able to learn how to mig weld thin metal in a few days. However, know how and machine setup are critical. Weldingtipsandtrick.com has some outstanding instructional videos.

[1BAD351 21]

13 minutes ago, RPM said:

Don't laugh, many folks make critical welds their first welds. I'm happy to see that you're smart enough to know better. I've never owned or used a flux core machine, but other folks on Mustang forums say they aren't too well suited for thin sheet metal work. Imho, a non welder should be able to learn how to mig weld thin metal in a few days. However, know how and machine setup are critical. Weldingtipsandtrick.com has some outstanding instructional videos.

Thanks I'll check that out. Much appreciated.

[Mike65 475]

1BAD351, When I started the body work on my 69 Coupe I got a 220V Lincoln flux core welder but soon after converted it to gas & purchased a bottle from a welding supply shop & now only have to pay for refills. If you look in the owners manual for the welder Lincoln offers a gas conversion kit.

[1BAD351 21]

12 minutes ago, Mike65 said:

1BAD351, When I started the body work on my 69 Coupe I got a 220V Lincoln flux core welder but soon after converted it to gas & purchased a bottle from a welding supply shop & now only have to pay for refills. If you look in the owners manual for the welder Lincoln offers a gas conversion kit.

How do you like how the flux welds with gas? Granted mine is only a 110v so I'm not sure it will compare but just curious.

[Mike65 475]

1 hour ago, 1BAD351 said:

How do you like how the flux welds with gas? Granted mine is only a 110v so I'm not sure it will compare but just curious.

When converting to gas you go to solid welding wire. I like how it welds better with gas & the solid welding wire, then with the flux core wire.

[mustangmike6996 34]

The MIG (shielded gas) is far better than Fluxcore.  The only benefit of Fluxcore is being able to weld outdoors where there is wind.  Wind can blow the shielding gas away and leave a dirty weld.  I like the way MIG with .030 wire flows.  If both surfaces are prepared correctly and clean then you can lay a strong bead down.  A strong bead that isn't all boogered up