new engine.

[Kaspar 21]

My engine broke down the other day. Beyond repair. So I need to purchase a new crate, with pistons, cam and lifters.
What I can reuse is everything in front of the engine (water pump and forth), the heads, intake manifold and EFI. My heads, intake manifold are both from Edelbrocks 2091 Top End Kit. The RPM Performer series for the 302. Then I've got the Edelbrock E-street EFI I wanna install.

So I've been looking at the Blueprint engines like:

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/mll-bpf4083ct

or

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-bp3024ct

But actually I don't need the heads, cause I've got the RPM heads.

What are your thoughts? Seems like I get most bang for the buck on the Blueprint engines.

I guess I could also buy a crate, pistons, cam, crank shaft etc. separately, but it would probably be more expensive and without the warranty.

It's an everyday car, that sometimes have my kids in the back, so I don't want too crazy of an engine, but would like to have fun at take off. Also we like to drive longer trips and don't wanna go too bad on milage. Therefor something around 300-350hp seems fine, which those blueprint engines have.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

Kaspar

 

[Brian Conway 264]

So what you really want is a built short block ?  Rebuild your 302 block, local machine shop, or another block spec'd to what your intake-carb and heads would like ?  Everything fits, bolts right up, more power and everybody's happy ?  Probably save you some money to.  Brian

[Kaspar 21]

7 minutes ago, Brian Conway said:

So what you really want is a built short block ?  Rebuild your 302 block, local machine shop, or another block spec'd to what your intake-carb and heads would like ?  Everything fits, bolts right up, more power and everybody's happy ?  Probably save you some money to.  Brian

Yeah, you're probably right. I can't rebuild the block, but I could maybe just get this one:

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/Mustang/Engine/Engine-Assemblies/302-Short-Block-Assembly-1965-1995-Mustang.axd

- and reuse as much as possible. Which wouldn't be the cam and lifters. Should I go with hydraulic rollers? If so, which?

[cavboy78 28]

if you are getting a new short block, then I would absolutely get a roller block. Many inherent advantages over the original/flat tappet, especially at your desired power level.

[MN69Grande 203]

ATK has a few short block options too.  Same price for a slightly above stock build so not sure I've helped any.  But they have a 331 and 347 option too.  The kids might like a little more torque.

http://www.high-performance-engines.com/ford-short-block-engines-s/122.htm

[barnett468 418]

blueprint engines are crap.

if you want a performance engine you may need to zero deck the block.

do not buy an engine that is .040" over.

the engine must be balanced within 2 grams and come with a balance card.

 

 

[Kaspar 21]

2 hours ago, barnett468 said:

blueprint engines are crap.

if you want a performance engine you may need to zero deck the block.

do not buy an engine that is .040" over.

the engine must be balanced within 2 grams and come with a balance card.

 

 

Thanks bernett468. Always good with solid replies. Are the the ATK blocks any good? I think I'm going to reuse all that I can from my Edelbrock Top End Kit and then get a new Cam and lifters. Any suggestions on that, besides a roller set-up?

[barnett468 418]

5 hours ago, Kaspar said:

Thanks bernett468. Always good with solid replies. Are the the ATK blocks any good? I think I'm going to reuse all that I can from my Edelbrock Top End Kit and then get a new Cam and lifters. Any suggestions on that, besides a roller set-up?

I'll get back to you later today but need more info.

 

What gears?

What trans?

What type of driving?

Mild, moderate or nasty idle?

Your EFI limits the size of cam you can use.

 

 

[Kaspar 21]

I've got a 3.55 gear on an 8" rear end

A newly renovated C4 with shift kit

I don't go on the track with it, but would like to be the fastest, when the light turns green. 'Cause I mainly use it for everyday driving when the weather is good. And often with the wife and kids in the car, taking trips to the country side.

So having a mild idle is definitely a priority, though I also like to burn rubber and have fun at slow speed (from 0-60). Going really fast on the track or the freeway is not something I do. So I definitely want a good idle and a performance that most effective at low rpm.

I wanna reuse my Edelbrock E-Street EFI.

I also have a new 2000 Stall Converter lying around that I'm thinking of installing.

Thanks!

[barnett468 418]

 

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1668&gid=289

use with roller lifters

zero deck the block

use cometic .035" head gaskets

make the compression 10.0

use the 2000 rpm stall converter

set your timing curve so it is optimal

floor it and roast the tires

you can also get a rebuilt with a 331 stroker kit in it for around $2000.00 . if you have the money, i would do that as well

 

.

 

[1969_Mach1 333]

8 hours ago, Kaspar said:

Thanks bernett468. Always good with solid replies. Are the the ATK blocks any good? I think I'm going to reuse all that I can from my Edelbrock Top End Kit and then get a new Cam and lifters. Any suggestions on that, besides a roller set-up?

Not Barnett here.  But if you are determined on buying something from a mass rebuilder, look at Jasper engines.  ATK is stuff typically sold at auto parts stores like Autozone and Orielly Auto Parts.  In my area repair shops always use a local machine shop to rebuild engines.  Only one or two don't, and they use Jasper.  I only know one person that uses a Jasper engine, it was a 302 for a Ford Bronco.  They never had any issues with it.

The cost difference will probably be a wash if you buy a used 1985 or newer 302 from a wrecking yard.  Then since you are using your own heads, have the short block rebuild at a local shop.

One of the bad aspects of a mass rebuilder is you don't know what you are getting.  The block could be bored 0.040" or more, the crank can be machined 0.020" or 0.030" undersized, both which are not ideal.  Those items you want to stay 0.030" or less on boring and stock or 0.010" undersized on the crank.  Mass rebuilders typically let stuff pass through as usable that a local shop wouldn't, or at least inform you about and let you make the decision.  Mass rebuilders also typically use lower quality components, especially gaskets.

[Kaspar 21]

Awesome guys. I wanna buy something new, 'cause I'm in Denmark and don't have access to any local shop that sells or makes rebuilds. 

But so an ATK crate (possibly the 331CI) with lunatic roller cam and lifters would be a great and fairly cheap set-up?

$2-3000 is what I was planning on using.

[jholmes217 65]

Put an FE big block in it and don't look back.  If you can reach all 8 spark plugs with your hands, your engine isn't big enough lol!  

[barnett468 418]

I would call these guys and ask them.

http://www.cmengines.com/

http://www.cmengines.com/Engines/DynoTestedPerformanceEngines/FordPerformanceCrateEngines/tabid/118/Default.aspx

 

ask exactly what pistons, rods, crank, and bearings are used

how much more to zero deck the block?

how much more for balancing?

 

 

[69Stanger408 82]

Tristar Engines is another option https://www.tristarengines.com/

Been researching them for awhile, in between them and a local builder, decision will be made within a week (awaiting price form local).

 

[Kaspar 21]

Thanks guys. I'm calling all of them and will let you know what I choose. It's also a little dependent of shipping cost and possibility to Denmark.

Does anyone have an idea of mpg for the various sizes? 302, 331, 351, 390... How is the difference between them in terms of gas economy? I know it's probably a really "wrong" question to ask and all choose to completely ignore when talking about and a fast and fun engine, but it is something I wanna take into consideration as we also use the car for long trips with the trunk full of suitcases.

[barnett468 418]

its a complicated question but i was also considering mileage when i suggested a 331 instead of something bigger . in general  the bigger the engine the lower the mileage so the 331 will likely get worse mileage than a 302 but it will have more tire burning power.

unless you have fuel injection and/or an overdrive, you will likely get around 14 mpg with a mildly built 331 at 100 - 110 kph.

 

[fvike 173]

Hi Kaspar; seeing that you are situated in Denmark, you might want to look into Madness Power in Norway. Owner Karl Ness has a solid reputation here in Norway. It would take you less than a day to go visit him.

[Kaspar 21]

So I've talked to a bunch of shops and engine builders and have narrowed my choice down to either buying a complete engine from CMEngines or reusing what I have and build my own.

cmengines can sell me their “Top of the Line” Complete 302 “Stroker” 331/325 horsepower “Mild” idle,  Balanced, Blueprinted, and Dyno Tested engine for $4296. It's a complete build that has been tested and works perfectly.

Then I've been talking with Summit about what I should buy to build a similar engine. They can sell me the following:

ATK 331CI engine crate:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hpe-sp13

Lunati Roller Cam and lifters:

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/lun-20350514lk/overview/

Reuse my Edelbrock RPM heads, but change the springs to these:

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/lun-73084-16/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/lun-75743-16/overview/

And then reuse my Edelbrock RPM manifold

It's gonna save me $1500 to build my own and reuse whatever I have that still works, however getting a complete engine from cmengines might be a safer choice.

[mustangmike6996 34]

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6009-347

[Kaspar 21]

With so many options and thinking of possible future upgrades I've now decided to go with a 351W engine. 

I've read great things about Tri Star's engines, however they don't ship internationally, so I need to figure out how to ship it to Denmark which seems incredible expensive if I need to arrange it myself. But it's this engine I wanna buy:

https://www.tristarengines.com/performance/ford/351/351w-ford-380-hp-410-torque-street-complete-dyno-d-hp-crate-engine-with-hp-aluminum-cylinder-heads

- with full roller cam, lifters, rocker arms.

 

If it's gonna be too expensive and complicated to handle the international shipping myself, I'm gonna go with this ATK engine from Summit:

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hpe-hp11c/overview/make/atk

They seem to have a good shipping deal, which will only cost me $600 by air.

 

There is also cmengines, which I'm waiting to hear from, but I'm kind of leaning towards paying a little more and getting something completely new.

 

I hope to make a decision this week, but am still open to other ideas :-)

[Brian Conway 264]

Well can't help it...  Your getting away from that ' direct swap ' discussed earlier.  Every time you need a bracket or widget your going to be dealing with the expense and distance and the lack of knowledge for what is needed to get this thing installed running and keeping it that way.  There now I feel better.  Brian

[Kaspar 21]

You're completely right and I'm learning a lot from this forum :-)

 

[fvike 173]

Shipping to Denmark; use www.jetcarrier.com. I use it all the time, it's as easy as it gets. They do both air and sea shipping.

[barnett468 418]

tristar sounds like crap and it is not all new . if you want a new block add $2200.00.