Front End Alignment - BAD NEWS

[Chelby-Ann 47]

I finally got the car over to the shop that originally did my front end alignment 2 years ago. She started getting "squirrely" on me when I drive it so I thought she needed another front end alignment. Front end was off and he showed me the numbers on the machine when he pulled down on the front end. Something is terribly wrong with my stock front end and need some guidance on what I need to do, I will do my best to paint a picture of the front end. She has 4100 miles on it. Went from drums to disk brakes with the original spindles. I did the 1" drop. Why? Cuz I thought that would give the car a better stance. New springs. New shocks. As you can see the tires need to be replaced. Drivers side worse than the passenger side. Robert talked about camber and bump steer and that's all Greek to me. Can someone dumb it down for me so I know what I need to be looking at? Should I abandon the 1" drop? Upgrade the front end? I just want to solve the severe wear on my front tires and maintain good front end alignment. Thanks in advance. In the mean time off to by 2 new tires. Bill.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Could you give the numbers for this? looks like the tops are out and the bottoms could be moved inward. there are many adjustments that can be made.

Does this shop have any knowledge of these cars?

[Caseyrhe 650]

is the shop aligning to the dropped suspension specs

[det0326 179]

From looking at the tire wear it appears to have to much negative camber and looking at the eccentric bolts it appears that they are in the most negative position. 

As anyone put shims in the upper control arm.

Dave

[barnett468 418]

they either aligned it incorrectly or something loosened up which changed the alignment or something in the suspension was worn out before, or wore out after, the alignment . irregardless, you should NOT have to be asking what is wrong with it on an internet forum if you have it at a competent shop, so it sounds to me like you should take it someone that actually knows what the hell they are doing.

[1969_Mach1 333]

It currently has too much negative camber, more so on the drivers side.  The eccentrics on the lower control arms are already at their most positive camber position.  So, nothing can be adjusted at the eccentrics to help it.  Either:

(1) somebody has mistakenly shimmed the upper control arms

(2) your shock towers are sagging inward which is common on these Mustangs if it has never been addressed

(3) worn ball joints or control arm bushing, but doesn't look likely

(4) the car is simply lowered a little too far with the stock suspension to be able to obtain correct alignment.

It's probably item 4 in the list.  But check the other items as well. 

[RPM 1,190]

Nothing wrong with adding shims to the UCA. Earlier Mustangs use them with the same suspension design, albiet with shorter control arms.

Yes, we need the alignment numbers. Please advise.

DO NOT abandon the Arning drop.

I added a bump steer kit which lowered the outer tie rod, reducing my bump steer to almost nil. http://www.cjponyparts.com/baer-bumpsteer-kit-1967-1969/p/BSK2/?year=1969&gclid=CjwKEAjw6e_IBRDvorfv2Ku79jMSJAAuiv9Y1zb53kapO-1KYG3mdEMpLsrd1NaT-3cY7NWXCSfk5xoCfRjw_wcB

Imho, the first two things added to our cars need to be the Export Brace and Monte Carlo bar.

[fvike 173]

If your shop uses original alignment data, those won't work. Those are for radial tires. Modern tires require different specs.

[RPM 1,190]

Daze's alignment specs:. http://dazecars.com/dazed/suspension101.html#3

Please align to these specs “1967-1970 Mustang, Falcon & Cougar Performance Alignment with or without Shelby drop”.  

These specifications are in order of importance.

1.  NO more than .25 degrees difference between driver’s side and passenger’s side.

2. +2.0  to +3.5 degrees caster.  

3.  -.5 to 0 degrees camber.  No positive camber, please.  There is no problem having a slight variation from driver’s side to passenger’s side to account for the crown in the road.

4.    1/16" to 1/8” toe in

[Mike65 475]

Here are the specs recommended by OTR right from their web site. http://opentrackerracing.com/technical/

[barnett468 418]

never ever use 1/16" toe on a stock front end because the toe increases with speed as the parts flex and it can be toed out at higher speeds which is very bad.

 

 

 

[det0326 179]

Correction    In my other post I said the eccentric bolts were in most negative position. Your are right 1969_Mach1 thanks for the correction.

 

[Chelby-Ann 47]

Thank you for your replies. I believe he is using original specs to align. There are no shims. There were several replies with specs to use that I will share with him or find another shop once I get new tires but not sure which one to use. Im inclined to go with Daze. Glad I won't have to abandon the drop. I'm here in North Carolina so any recommendations for shops that are familiar with this sort of alignment would be appreciated. Thanks.

[1969_Mach1 333]

Choosing different alignment specs will not reduce the tire wear issue.  It already has too much negative camber and from the pictures the camber adjustment on the lower control arms are at their extreme end of adjustment for positive camber.  You need to find a way to eliminate some negative camber, i.e. unfortunately raising the ride height a little is one option.

Incorrect toe will cause excessive wear on either the inner or outer tire edges.  But yours looks like an excessive negative camber issue.

[barnett468 418]

3 hours ago, Chelby-Ann said:

There were several replies with specs to use that I will share with him

I would read my post again and go somewhere else.

[moodster 55]

I'm close by in Kernersville, NC.  If you want I can easily check your camber... I bought a gauge when I did mine.  PM me if you're interested.

David

 

[Chelby-Ann 47]

13 hours ago, barnett468 said:

I would read my post again and go somewhere else.

That is my plan. Thanks. I report back when it is checked out and correctly set. 

[Chelby-Ann 47]

13 hours ago, moodster said:

I'm close by in Kernersville, NC.  If you want I can easily check your camber... I bought a gauge when I did mine.  PM me if you're interested.

David

 

PM sent. Thanks

[shaun071 62]

If you have run out of camber adjustment on the lower bolt the UCA can be shimmed to help with camber. Also more shims on the forward bolt will give more positive caster which is a good thing too. 

[barnett468 418]

On 5/18/2017 at 9:50 AM, Chelby-Ann said:

That is my plan. Thanks. I report back when it is checked out and correctly set. 

aligning it is NOT the problem . the problem is that you need to determine if any parts are worn before you do anything and then do NOT set the toe in a 1/16" . thats just nuts.

 

 

 

 

[JayEstes 172]

That wear on new front-end tires has to imply that it wasn't set right when you had it aligned the first time.  That or some part(s) you put in were put in wrong and/or are now damaged.  The shelby (arning) drop should NOT be the issue.  

I'd bet $ the guy that originally aligned it, put it at max adjustment on the eccentric bolts, and said "damn - I can't do any better than that, just call it good". If they told you it was in spec when it left the shop the first time, I would be very suspicious.

Like Barnett says - go somewhere else - I suspect you are going to wind-up at shims on the uppers due to lowering, shelby-drop won't cause this problem. I have stock spring lengths with shelby-drop and its fantastic.

Bottom-line: I doubt it's your work or your car, it's likely that it was never aligned right to begin with.

[grendi 16]

does your suspension work the way it should?

i once had a problem with a cheap upper control arm that got stuck from time to time, and my tires looked just as bad after only a few miles.
since then i try to go with made in the usa parts if available.

[1969_Mach1 333]

Sorry to repeat this.  Yes something might be worn, ball joint, control arm bushing, etc.  But the suspension parts seen in the pictures look fairly new.  I don't understand why the fact the car might be lowered a little too far to obtain correct camber adjustment is being ignored.  That's a fairly common issue with these cars.  You have to remember, these cars have severe camber curves as the suspension travels up and down.  Lowering the upper control arms reduces that some.  So lowering the car drastically changes the camber.

If you don't want to raise the ride height, the other option, like a couple of other members already mentioned, is shim the upper control arms.  To be forewarned, I've seen that done once, then the tires rubbed against the fenders.

[Chelby-Ann 47]

Afternoon Folks. Happy Memorial Day Weekend. I was able to have my front end aligned this morning at a Ford Dealership. The fellah that does the alignments comes with high regards so I thought that I would try him. We spent 3 hours on her and worked at getting it right. In the end she needed shims added to the Upper Control Arms. I measured them to be .110" thick. I had no idea how involved aligning this car was. Next up is to buy new tires and keep an eye on the wear on the tires. I look forward to having this issue behind me. No worn, loose or broken parts.

[Mike65 475]

Bill, so glad to hear you got this problem figured out. BTW your Mustang looks awesome.