New Headlights Setup?

[Mach1 Driver 560]

12 minutes ago, Raven R code said:

.... At this point, the MustangMarket headlights.....

If you meant "Mustang Project", I believe Moodster is still out of town and hasn't taken pictures.

[Raven R code 281]

2 minutes ago, Mach1 Driver said:

If you meant "Mustang Project", I believe Moodster is still out of town and hasn't taken pictures.

Sorry... you are correct.......MustangProject. 

[TexasEd 188]

So if I order the Scott Drake 4 halogen headlight set for my 69 I'll burn up my wiring?

[Mach1 Driver 560]

1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

So if I order the Scott Drake 4 halogen headlight set for my 69 I'll burn up my wiring?

Yes everything in the circuit will be exposed to more current: the wire, light switch and kick switch. Put in a relay system to handle the load and you'll be alright.

[Midlife 814]

8 minutes ago, Mach1 Driver said:

Yes everything in the circuit will be exposed to more current: the wire, light switch and kick switch. Put in a relay system to handle the load and you'll be alright.

Well, the wires won't burn up as the headlight circuit breaker will trip repeatedly using halogen bulbs.  It is best to use relays for the Halogens.  RCCI has a very slick set-up for plug-n-play headlight relays (http://www.rccinnovations.com/index.php?show=menu-hrk-all)

[TexasEd 188]

48 minutes ago, Midlife said:

Well, the wires won't burn up as the headlight circuit breaker will trip repeatedly using halogen bulbs.  It is best to use relays for the Halogens.  RCCI has a very slick set-up for plug-n-play headlight relays (http://www.rccinnovations.com/index.php?show=menu-hrk-all)

Those look good.  I assume that since Cougars used 4 headlights were good to go but the pictures he has only have two connectors.  Which sets are people using for their halogen headlights?

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

A 50w halogen bulb will draw the same amps as a 50w incandescent/tungsten bulb. A 50-watt halogen light draws 3.9 amps per light @12.8v. A 55-Watt Halogen light draws 4.3 amps per light @ 12.8v. There is an equation used to determine amperage when watt rating and input voltage is known. Amperage equals Watt Rating divided by Input Voltage which is typically 12.8 volts in automotive applications. So 55 watts divided by 12.8 volts equals 4.30 amps. Your specific charging system may output slightly more than 12.8 volts which will increase the amps drawn. Incandescent light bulbs fade with age, unlike halogen bulbs. An average incandescent bulb will last anywhere between 750 and 1,000 hours. An average halogen bulb will last anywhere between 2,250 and 3,500 hours. A 75 watt incandescent bulb produces around 1,180 lumens of light while a 75 watt halogen bulb lets off about 1,300 lumens.

Sources:

https://www.quora.com/Do-halogen-lamps-consume-more-electricity-than-a-regular-light-bulb-lamp

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/light-bulb-guide,review-1986.html

https://www.etrailer.com/question-7611.html

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_much_amperage_do_headlights_draw?#slide=1

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Midlife is correct as always, the wires won't burn-up as long as the circuit breakers in the light switch operate. However, I've seen posts where people complain that their wires did burn-up when switching to halogens, so obviously the 50 year old circuit breakers did not operate.

Its true that 50w in a halogen will produce the same amperage as a 50w incandescent. However the best information I can find on the old Par46 incandescent bulbs says that the outer bulbs had 35w, not 50w.

Also of note is that H4 lamps of any brand are not very efficient in the 5.75" format. Only 55% of the total reflector and lens area is used to collect and direct the light for low beam, because of the low beam filament shield inside the H4 bulb.

That's good source info 69ShelbyGT350H

[aslanefe 333]

11 hours ago, TexasEd said:

Those look good.  I assume that since Cougars used 4 headlights were good to go but the pictures he has only have two connectors.  Which sets are people using for their halogen headlights?

Looks like the relay kits is connected to the wiring harness (not to the headlights itself). It has 2 connectors because you disconnect the headlight harness connector of the vehicle from main harness and connect the relay kit in between (one connector to harness going to the headlights, other to the harness coming from the main). So It does not matter if you have 2 or 4 headlights, the original headlight harness of the car that is still used with the kit has 2 or 4 connectors (depending on the car) for the headlights themselves.

[TexasEd 188]

But if I was doing the relay I would put it between the original harness and the headlights.  I guess the this configuration protects the switch but not the harness.  There was one kit I saw that looked like it had the headlight connectors on it.  I think I'll call the seller.

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

1 hour ago, Mach1 Driver said:

Midlife is correct as always, the wires won't burn-up as long as the circuit breakers in the light switch operate. However, I've seen posts where people complain that their wires did burn-up when switching to halogens, so obviously the 50 year old circuit breakers did not operate.

Its true that 50w in a halogen will produce the same amperage as a 50w incandescent. However the best information I can find on the old Par46 incandescent bulbs says that the outer bulbs had 35w, not 50w.

Also of note is that H4 lamps of any brand are not very efficient in the 5.75" format. Only 55% of the total reflector and lens area is used to collect and direct the light for low beam, because of the low beam filament shield inside the H4 bulb.

That's good source info 69ShelbyGT350H

If installing Halogen lights causes problems I would say that you are installing higher wattage lights than you previously had. Also as the wiring and connections get older, if not maintained they can create a higher resistance which will increase the amps needed to power the lights. Maybe the incandescent lights did not draw more amps but just got dimmer where the Halogen did draw the full amps through the circuit and then the problems showed up?

[TexasEd 188]

I thought part of the issue was also that with the old harness that the lights would not be as bright as they would be on the relay.  Maybe I'm wrong.

 

I'm leaning towards just running them without the relay and seeing where I am before I do any mods.  

[aslanefe 333]

2 hours ago, TexasEd said:

But if I was doing the relay I would put it between the original harness and the headlights.  I guess the this configuration protects the switch but not the harness.  There was one kit I saw that looked like it had the headlight connectors on it.  I think I'll call the seller.

Here is one that plugs to headlight connector that is for 4 headlights. They have some for 2 headlights too.

https://www.amazon.com/4-Headlight-Wiring-Harness-Headlamp-Ceramic/dp/B06XJ771YQ/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_sims?ie=UTF8

[danno 128]

1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

I thought part of the issue was also that with the old harness that the lights would not be as bright as they would be on the relay.  Maybe I'm wrong.

 

I'm leaning towards just running them without the relay and seeing where I am before I do any mods.  

I used halogen for years before switching to the relay system.  I did not have any problem with it, but the lights were never that bright. I never burned any wires or popped the circuit breaker. But I do not drive much a night during the summer months in Minnesota.  So it can be done, but there is risk in doing it.

The circuit breaker in the light switch only protects the wires between the light switch and the lights. The wire that could be burning is the fusable link in the main wire from the battery to the switch.  I thought there was a section of that wire that is supposed to burn up in the event of an overload. They used to use a small piece of wire as a fuse..  

[Mach1 Driver 560]

3 hours ago, danno said:

I used halogen for years before switching to the relay system.  I did not have any problem with it, but the lights were never that bright. I never burned any wires or popped the circuit breaker. But I do not drive much a night during the summer months in Minnesota.  So it can be done, but there is risk in doing it.

The circuit breaker in the light switch only protects the wires between the light switch and the lights. The wire that could be burning is the fusable link in the main wire from the battery to the switch.  I thought there was a section of that wire that is supposed to burn up in the event of an overload. They used to use a small piece of wire as a fuse..  

There is no apples to apples comparison here. Not all halogen lights have the same wattage/amperage, but I think that all I've seen are greater than the stock 35w incandescent lights. Since the circuit breakers in the light switch are in the input side of the switch, they protect the various switching contacts internal to the light switch, the kick switch, the wires, and the connectors. The 69s do not have any fusible links anywhere that I am aware of- at least none are identified on the wire diagram. Midlife would know for sure, but I recall him saying that their first use was in the 70s. 

Personally I would not install halogen lights without a relay system to handle the load. I'm an electrical engineer and it just doesn't make good sense to me, since Ford does not share any of their design data, and we cannot know if we are stressing the circuit.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

8 hours ago, 69ShelbyGT350H said:

 Maybe the incandescent lights did not draw more amps but just got dimmer where the Halogen did draw the full amps through the circuit and then the problems showed up?

By all the information I can find, the incandescent's DO draw less amperage. They appear dimmer because they are, and the frequency of light is in the yellow band, whereas the halogens are white. Perhaps the connectors at the headlights degrade over time and the act of unplugging the incandescent light and plugging in the halogen wipes the contacts enough to improve the connection. That coupled with the higher wattage of the halogens would spell trouble.

[Midlife 814]

3 hours ago, Mach1 Driver said:

There is no apples to apples comparison here. Not all halogen lights have the same wattage/amperage, but I think that all I've seen are greater than the stock 35w incandescent lights. Since the circuit breakers in the light switch are in the input side of the switch, they protect the various switching contacts internal to the light switch, the kick switch, the wires, and the connectors. The 69s do not have any fusible links anywhere that I am aware of- at least none are identified on the wire diagram. Midlife would know for sure, but I recall him saying that their first use was in the 70s. 

Personally I would not install halogen lights without a relay system to handle the load. I'm an electrical engineer and it just doesn't make good sense to me, since Ford does not share any of their design data, and we cannot know if we are stressing the circuit.

I have never seen a fusible link on a 69 headlight harness that goes to the starter solenoid.  I'd say 85-90% of the 1970's did have a fusible link, but there have been a couple that have crossed my workbench with standard wiring. 

What's interesting is that the fusible link protects the battery, not the harness!  Why do I say that?  Because the alternator attaches to the headlight harness below the fusible link, so you can still pull higher amperage than you should when the alternator supplies the current if the fusible link blows. If that happens, of course, you won't be able to start the car via the starter motor.   I suspect the limitation if the fusible link blows is the alternator output, typically 65-70 amps, about the rating of the main power line.

[Raven R code 281]

Hi All......reviving this thread as it had a lot of good info. Before I decide to buy the relay setup for Halogens, has anyone come across anything new for LED headlight? I did send an email to a friends son who works for Cree LED in NC. See what comes out of that...he is an engineer there.

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

On the Ford Truck forums they have tried the LED headlights, but all say the light is bright, but the pattern is not good. They send the light everywhere, including into oncoming drivers vision. A new reflector needs to be designed specifically for LED headlights that will operate with both low and high beams. Maybe you have found something that works?

Edited April 27, 2018 by 69ShelbyGT350H
Grammar

[Mach1 Driver 560]

I haven't seen anything new since January. The only DOT approved LED headlights I've seen in our 5.75" format are available from Daniel Stern, but they look like multi-faceted bug eyes. He has some good halogen lights though- see the attached:

headlights3.doc

HEADLIGHTS.pdf

[RPM 1,190]

On 4/18/2017 at 8:14 AM, Mach1 Driver said:

Hey Terry, thanks for your info here. 

If you really want to see better go to danielsternlighting.com.

I did go there, but dang, his website is kinda difficult to figure out his products. For me anyway.

The 69s have a small 5-3/4" headlight that poses problems. For the high beams use a good quality Cubie parabolic Hi beam $79, with Flosser/Narva Rangepower+50 bulbs $15.59.

Stern doesn't list this info, or I can't find it. Can you post a list of the parts you bought, I'd be confident just using what you did. Did you buy your set up from him?  Since Stern suggests it, should I just email him with the info you provided on the products?

For the low beams you have some options depending on how well you want to see and spend. Don't use H4s of any brand. In this size only 55% of the reflector is used to collect light for the low beam. Use Hella BiFocal Hi Low beams $139 with Flosser/Narva Rangepower+50 bulbs $15.59.

Does the do not use H4s of any brand apply to hi beam also? I don't see any hi beams other than H4's on Stern's site. 

This takes some rewiring since now you will only have 4 filaments instead of 6. The outboard lights are always on and use the same filament and on Hi-beams the inners are turned on too. The kick switch is jumped from low to common to keep the outside lights on with high beams. The halogens use more amps so you'll need to put in two relays and heavier wire. Stern will explain all this.

I don't understand the rewire tip, do you have a wiring diagram showing this?

Is it obvious I'm auto electrical illiterate? 

Thanks Terry.

 

 

[Mach1 Driver 560]

42 minutes ago, RPM said:

 

Bob, I'm not sure everyone remembers that all of the above has been discussed in this string or others on this site. I had many, many emails to Daniel Stern Lighting Consultants over a couple of years and condensed his latest information (his recommendations did change over time) in January of this year with the attachments shown in my post 2 up from here. I would go with these.  He has revised his opinion of "not to use H4s of any brand" since the release of the Koito H4s. He says it is far superior to stock filament bulbs. There are basically two ways to go that require different wiring, headlight housings and bulbs. The diagrams and what to use is all spelled out in the pdf. The MS Word file shows what the headlight housings look like.

[RPM 1,190]

Oops! My memory wasn't good when I was a youngster, and I tend to skin when reading, makes for a fun day! :)   Thanks Terry.

[MN69Grande 203]

I came across these lights and thought they looked cool.  I have no idea how well they work and the cost a lot.  But it does say they are certified by SAE/DOT.

 

https://www.raneystruckparts.com/5-3-4-round-led-headlight-with-8-high-power-leds/?gclid=CjwKCAjwlIvXBRBjEiwATWAQImQ1clduRNPkYdx4AkCTtmtV676qhV5vQ6E5iDGPeVNnTjBR4j4YihoCKxIQAvD_BwE

[Raven R code 281]

It  looks like halogens with the relays that midlife recommended might be the way to go. I’ll still post any info I get from my contact at Cree.