Anyone have this problem with a Borgenson Box

[prayers1 153]

Today I went to do the switch, but he Borgenson fit was extremely tight. The round part of the gear box rested on top of the frame which caused the alignment holes to off. Eventually I was able to catch a thread on each hole, but had to rotate the tightening of the bolts. After a while the bottom bolt went flush on the frame but the top 2 bolts were out about an 1/8", I had to go back and fourth, tightening the bolts with effort one at a time until the whole unit was flush against the frame.

 

I then saw that the Borgenson steering shaft was off center from my Steering column. There is a little play on my column so I pushed it hard to one side trying to line it up with the Borgenson but it did not center.

 

I think if I loosen the steering column from the firewall that I might be able to get the column to move a little more. (I think that might work, but not sure).

 

When I took the unit back off I can see a cut mark on the frame from the unit being forced on.

 

IMO I actually think the casting material on the Borgenson is built up too much. You can see evidence of that in the pictures.

I'd like to grind it off but the warrentee will be void.

 

I did contact Borgenson and sent some pics. The Rep said it should be an easy bolt in. I'll find out tomorrow.

 

What do you think????

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

My box easily bolted in place 

[prayers1 153]

Thank you Adam, I am familiar with the Collapsible shaft. In my case, the shaft was pushed up as far it would go and there was no clearance to put the rag joint on.

I believe I could of put the joint on the Steering Box before bolting it up, but it would have been a tight fit on my column with no play in or out on the steering column shaft.

[1969_Mach1 333]

My borgeson box hit the frame where you are pointing to.  Same situation.  I used a die grinder with a carbide burr and gently removed some material from the steering box and created a nice smooth large radius.  Touched it up with some gloss black and a paint brush for model cars.  Cast iron is very brittle.  It gives you no warning before it breaks.  For that reason, I didn't want to force the mounting bolts into place.

 

The bottom mount of the steering column has a lot of adjustment where it bolts to the floor.  That will allow you to align the shaft with the steering box.  I also trimmed 1" off of the column outer tube to obtain more clearance for the rag joint.

 

Remove the column from the car.  Carefully get the steering box centered.  Install the rag joint on the steering box but leave the set screw loose.  Make sure the rag joint is positioned so that the steering wheel will be straight.  Reinstall the column and center up everything.  After the column is correctly positioned and tightened, tighten the set screw on the rag joint.

 

You have an auto trans.  So after this, the rest is much easier.

[prayers1 153]

Thanks for that bit of info 1969_Mach1!

I was going to grind as well until I saw the warning on the instructions saying that it will void the gear box. I'll see what Borgenson has to say tomorrow, maybe I can get a release from them to allow me to do some grinding.

 

Did you grind only at the corner where I'm pointing with a pencil or the whole length?

 

As for taking an inch off the outer collar, great ideal. 

 

Was yours a close fitting at the rag joint as mine?

 

If I pull the column, I might as well rebuild and paint. Heck, I also need to install a Power Brake Booster, this will give me more access.

[1969_Mach1 333]

On mine I removed at most 1/16" material from the corner only.  It was that corner you are pointing to that caused my problems.  Depending on the exact bolt hole locations on the frame for the original steering box some cars might not have that issue.

 

My column fit like yours before I trimmed the outer tube.  Now is a good time to repaint the column.  Maybe replace the upper bearing while its apart.

 

I purchased my steering box from Summit Racing.  They have a good return policy.  I figured if there were issues with the steering box, they would probably exchange it and not notice where I had to clearance it a little.

 

Are you also using the Saginaw power steering pump Borgeson sells?  I used it.  Works good.  I painted it the light blueish/grey color that Ford originally painted their power steering pumps with.

 

When you talk to Borgeson, email them that photo so they know exactly where you are having clearance issues.

[prayers1 153]

Borgeson said Yes, you can grind the casting without voiding the warranty provided you don’t grind through the casting.

 

Do you think a Dremel can grind off the excess?

 

On rebuilding the column, where did you get your parts. CJ's is charging $61 for one bearing??? I rebuilt a column on a 73 highboy and each bearing was $22.

Do you know of a rebuild kit?

 

I have the Cleveland, they don't sell a Saginaw set up for that. I've heard mixed reviews about using the stock pump w/ the Clevelands, most report not enough pressure.

Wonder if I bought the set up from Borgeson, could I modify the brackets that came with it?

[1969_Mach1 333]

A Dremel should work.  Just take a little longer.

 

I buy my parts through NPD because they are closer to me and so far have treated me well the few times I've had returns.  I recall paying somewhere in the $60 to $70 range for the bearing, a new rubber retainer ring, and upper and lower foam type seals.  I had to kind of guess where the foam seals went.

 

I also heard mixed reports using the stock power steering  pump as well.  From what I understand the Borgeson box needs a maximum of 1200 psi for correct operation.  I don't know what pressure the Ford pump can create.  The test pressure specs for the Ford power steering pump in my 1969 Ford service manual is only 800 psi.

 

If you purchase the power steering pump through Summit Racing or Jegs, carefully mock it up.  And if it won't work and it's not damaged, you can return it within 60 days.  I didn't have to, but I modified the pump mounting bracket that came with mine to move the pump closer to the engine and reuse the original length belt.

 

The pump bracket Borgeson provides is simple flat 3/8 thick plate and some spacers.  It might work for you.  Maybe drill different mounting holes in it.  If you need different length spacers and bolts I have found McMaster Car is the best mail order source for miscellaneous hardware like that.  

[cavboy78 28]

prayers,

 

Have you checked CVF racing for a 351C Saginaw bracket? I thought they made one that would work. FWIW, did not have the clearance problem with my Borgeson box that you are having.

[Mike65 475]

On rebuilding the column, where did you get your parts. CJ's is charging $61 for one bearing??? I rebuilt a column on a 73 highboy and each bearing was $22.

Do you know of a rebuild kit?

 

 

 

I do not know of a rebuild kit. When you purchase the steering column bearing do NOT get it from CJPP it is the wrong bearing, it is to big. I ended up purchasing it from Missouri Mustang pt#- F23z-3517 67-93 fixed upper steering column bearing, & the rest of the stuff I got from Muscle Car Research.

 

http://www.missourimustang.com/1967-93-tilt-1968-93-fixed-upper-steering-column-bearing/

 

https://www.musclecarresearch.com/parts/Ford/Mustang/1969

 

Scroll down the page on Muscle Car Research's site on the link I provided & they list the parts for the steering column. I used the steering column shaft insulator, lower column tube bearing, & transmission selector tube seal.

[prayers1 153]

Thanks Mike for the heads up!

I saw a review on CJ where someone mention that was the wrong bearing.

I just took the whole column a part so thanks for your help!

 

Cavboy- Do you have a Cleveland?

 

 

1969_Mach1- Do you have a picture of your set up?

If I get a Saginaw, I'll more then likely get The CVR Racing bracket that Cavboy mention above, it's a little pricey $97.00.

[cavboy78 28]

prayers,

 

I do not, but have wrenched on them. Yes, bracket is pricey...but the quality is there and it's a much more elegant solution than the steel plate.

[1969_Mach1 333]

prayers1,

 

I'll upload a picture showing the pump shortly.

[prayers1 153]

1969_Mach1,

I have my Steering column apart to rebuild, I want to make the adjustment to the lower tube in order to fit the rag joint. 

As you suggested above, you cut an inch off of the outer tube.

 

My inner tube stick out 3/8s" pass the outer tube.  So did you also cut the inner tube 1 3/8ths?

 

Were you able to still use the plastic inner collar and rubber dust shield at the bottom of the tube?

[det0326 179]

1969_Mach1,

I have my Steering column apart to rebuild, I want to make the adjustment to the lower tube in order to fit the rag joint. 

As you suggested above, you cut an inch off of the outer tube.

 

My inner tube stick out 3/8s" pass the outer tube.  So did you also cut the inner tube 1 3/8ths?

 

Were you able to still use the plastic inner collar and rubber dust shield at the bottom of the tube?

 

It's been a couple of years since I assembled my column back in the car and seem to remember that the whole tube assy could be adjusted a little toward the cab some. Would that give you enough of room at the rag joint? 

 

Dave

[prayers1 153]

I don't think so. If you look at my last picture, the column is fully collapsed and it is a tight fit.

 

I was wondering if 1969_Mach1 was able to still use the plastic inner tube shaft seal and rubber bushing after cutting an inch of and if he had to also cut his inner tube as well.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Yes, the insert can be used, When I did the 68 cougar colume for the rack install it had to be shortened.

[1969_Mach1 333]

prayers1,

 

Yeah, on mine, the iiner tube was flush with the outer tube.  I trimmed 1 inch off both so they would be flush again.  So for you, I guess 1-3/8" would be trimmed from the inner tube.  Regarding the plastic sleeve, bushing, whatever its called, after trimming the tube it would no longer snap into place.  I put a couple of dabs if black RTV on it and essentually glued it into place.

 

Yes, if you look at the steering column mount to the dash, there is some adjustment there.  But it might not be enough on some cars without trimming the bottom of the tubes.

 

I don't know what that inner tube is for.  It seems like its there for automatic transmission shift linkage.  Maybe these columns were also used on cars with an auto tans and a column shifter.

[1969_Mach1 333]

prayers1,

 

After you collapse the inner shaft 2 to 3 inches.  Check to see if there is any play between the upper and lower halves.  Just jiggle them slightly in opposite twisting motions.  If there is, even the smallest amount will be felt in the steering wheel and  I can tell you how I worked around that issue on mine. 

[prayers1 153]

OK I understand about cutting the tubes, thank you!

 

My 2 halves are pretty snug.

[det0326 179]

Is the Borgenson box that much longer than the CPP one? I used the CPP box and didn't have to cut any of the column tube and had plenty of room.

 

Dave

[Machspeed 219]

CPP one? Can you share a link, Dave?   

[det0326 179]

CPP one? Can you share a link, Dave?   

http://www.classicperform.com/Series400/400SeriesPowerSteeringBoxes.htm

 

 

The CP50005MU discription says 1965 to 1967 but will work on 1969 also, this is the one I put on my 69..

[Machspeed 219]

http://www.classicperform.com/Series400/400SeriesPowerSteeringBoxes.htm

 

 

The CP50005MU discription says 1965 to 1967 but will work on 1969 also, this is the one I put on my 69..

You like that box? Curious as to why you went with it over the Borgeson?

[det0326 179]

You like that box? Curious as to why you went with it over the Borgeson?

Nothing wrong with the latest  Borgenson with 14:1 ratio that I here. When I did mine all they offered was the 16:1 ratio that was a re manufactured Toyota box (I think) with a modified bracket welded on  that had some issues that I didn't want to get into.

 

Dave