First Engine Rebuild

[Tgriffin91 27]

Hey all,

 

My engine has started making some dreaded knocking noises which I am fairly sure has to do with worn bearings(Crank/Connecting Rod). I have previously taken the oil pan off and know there is more play than there should be in some of the connecting rod bearings. We purchased another car just in time for this one start to break down so I can actually work on the mustang and not worry about how I'll get anywhere thankfully. 

 

I am looking at doing a rebuild of my bone stock 302 small block. I have 2.5" exhaust with a C4 behind the engine. currently it has a 2bbl intake and carb, but will probably upgrade that. The car is mostly just for crusing and I am slowly working on things.

It was "rebuilt" when I bought it, though clearly not very well. when I bought the thing I didn't know enough to realize how bad it was done. 

While I am rebuilding the engine I would like to possibly add a little more budget performance. I am looking to stay in the $900 range for the rebuild not including any machine work that may need to be done due to the failures in the engine. 

Specifically, what are your thoughts on boring it out?

I have just started looking into rebuild kits and different components so any advice/suggestions are appreciated! 

 

Thank you!

[Mach1 Driver 560]

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[jholmes217 65]

For a $900 budget, I would go with headers, carb, and intake manifold.  While you have the heads off, grind off the hump in the exhaust ports.  Also have your distributor recurved.  If you can find some of these parts used on Craigslist, eBay, or swap meets, it will definitely help keep cost down.  Holley carbs are easy to rebuild.

 

I'd also call Ken at Oregon Camshaft for a cam.  He is a Ford guy, and has excellent service and quality.  http://www.oregoncamshaft.com/

[69volunteer 84]

My first suggestion would be to put down the summit racing catalog and ask yourself what your goal is and how much time you have. Sounds like this is no longer your only means of transportation so the time factor may be less of an issue. Headers, carb and intake will eat up most of that $900. You mention 'boring it out'. Is that to add more 'cubes' to the motor? You will need new pistons and added machine shop bill.

 

Carb, intake and headers are all bolt on add ons and I agree you should be planning it out but, you should probably look to pull the motor and determine why it is knocking first. Post up your findings here for advice. I found a local engine re-builder that rebuilt mine for pretty reasonable. Probably as cheap as I could do it for just the parts.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[69volunteer 84]

I don't have the exact book Mach1 Driver posted but those "How to build SBF or SBC" books are great easy reads that give you a ton of information.

[Tgriffin91 27]

Thank you so far for the advice. I may have been unclear as far as upgrades. I am looking at upgrading internals mostly (roller cam, forged pistons, aluminum pistons, hi flow oil pump, ported heads, etc?) that sort of thing as I can purchase headers/carb and easily bolt them on later they do not depend on the motor being apart for upgrading. 

And yes boring it to 331 maybe for more HP. I already have a high flow radiator.

Sorry for the confusion and I still appreciate the advice.

[jholmes217 65]

So are you talking about a stroker kit?

[sixt9stang 36]

If the engine has been rebuilt once already you will want to have the block checked to see if it has already been bored out.

[Max Power 74]

Thank you so far for the advice. I may have been unclear as far as upgrades. I am looking at upgrading internals mostly (roller cam, forged pistons, aluminum pistons, hi flow oil pump, ported heads, etc?) that sort of thing as I can purchase headers/carb and easily bolt them on later they do not depend on the motor being apart for upgrading. 

And yes boring it to 331 maybe for more HP. I already have a high flow radiator.

Sorry for the confusion and I still appreciate the advice.

You don't get to 331 by boring it, you get there by buying a stroker kit. Stroker motors are great, but your budget would restrict that. Given that you will probably need to overbore just to repair worn cylinder walls, you will need most of that $900 for stock repair. New pistons, new balance, if you are knocking possible resized rods and crank work, heck, you probably won't be able to do anything to the heads at all depending on the damage below.  You might be better off finding a confirmed decent used engine and swapping, possibly even a 351w.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I think obaining some pricing might be in order.  In my part of the country $900 is less than half of the cost to rebuild a motor.  And that's doing the dissassembly and assembly myself, paying a machine shop only for machine work and cleaning.

[barnett468 418]

look on the top of the pistons . if it has been bored before it will likely have the bore size.

 

if the bore is worn you need to bore it.

 

if it is .040" and worn it is junk.

 

give us all the number on the heads.

 

you can't afford forged pistons and don't need them . just buy cast ones or hypereutectic ones

 

you don't "need" a roller cam . just buy a regular cam and good lifters.

 

you may want 1.7 rockers but we will see.

 

need your rear gear ratio.

 

if your gears are 2.89 or 3.0 you are probably looking at a comp xe262h cam.

 

crower cam oiler lifters

 

4 barrel low rise aluminum intake

 

cloyes true roller timing chain

 

stock or high volume oil pump

 

arp oil pump drive

 

cheap eagle rods

 

you need at least 9.5 compression and .034' - .043" of quench/squish clearance.

[1969_Mach1 333]

Am I the only one that noticed the $900 range for an engine rebuild?

[barnett468 418]

Am I the only one that noticed the $900 range for an engine rebuild?

 

No, which is why I told him that he can't afford forged pistons.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I guess where I live machine shop work is just extremely expensive.  Last I checked (several years ago) $300 to bore and hone.  That doesn't include any cleaning before or after.  Then resurfacing the deck is highly recommended prior to boring since the boring eqpt. references also from the deck surface.  Rebuilding cylinder heads can also consume a lot of money.  Especially if any valve guides need replacing or liners installed, or machine work for screw in rocker arm studs is performed.

 

Not trying to be rude, just a little realistic.  Maybe I'm way out of line with pricing.  I just don't see $900 buying all the parts and additional performance upgrades plus still pay for any machine shop work.  I think some compromises will have to be made to stay in that budget.

[sixt9stang 36]

He does say $900 not including machine work.  He would be able to hop it up a bit on $900.  He just has to be mindful that since the block has been rebuilt once that it may not be able to be bored out more meaning he will need a new or used block.

[fvike 173]

Since the title says "First engine rebuild", I'm gonna offer you some tips about the process itself. I learned thru trial and error.

 

When you assemble the engine, clean everything. The picture shows what was left when I had washed new Scat rods and a new Scat crank. A lot of dirt in that bucket, and more importantly, not in my motor!

I used regular dish washing soap, if it can clean dishes or a oily frying pan in seconds, it will also clean the oil film on new parts. The block I had cleaned at a fully equipped truck shop, they have gigantic washing machines, stuff is clean when done!

 

 

Also, here's the setup of the work bench. New rods out of the box, needs to be cleaned. A cup of oil to soak the lifters. ARP lube for the fasteners, and  use quality paper, like the blue one there. Cheaper paper might leave debris on the parts. I also had cam lube and a oil can for the rings and cylinder walls. About the rings, get an ARP ring compressor. It will be the most valuable tool in your cabinet, even if you only use it once. Total game changer.

If you follow the instructions of a book, inspect all parts, see that they are at spec, and above all, clean everything thoroughly and  torque to spec, you will have a great, tight engine. Take your time, do it right the first time.

 

 

 

[1969_Mach1 333]

He does say $900 not including machine work.  He would be able to hop it up a bit on $900.  He just has to be mindful that since the block has been rebuilt once that it may not be able to be bored out more meaning he will need a new or used block.

My fault.  I missed that.

[Rsanter 152]

First things first.

You need to pull the engine and do an inspection. Depending on the quality and the miles the cylinder bore may not be worn and perhaps you can get by installing a crank/rod kit and repair your engine.

Then you can spend some money on other upgrades.

 

If the bore of the engine is already too much then you will be looking at another block. If this is the case then looking at the purchase of a complete shortblock 'crate' engine may be an option to you. You can get these already as a larger size stroker and then you just have to complete it

 

If you go this route you can also look at the option of going to a stroker 351 as you can then go all the way to 408 cubes if you really want some power

 

You might also find a wrecked 5.0 mustang with a good engine and do a swap with that.

 

Just some options that you can look at based on what you want to do with the car

 

Bob

[JoeyS 12]

Here is a link to the pdf "how to rebuild your SMALL-BLOCK FORD"

[Tgriffin91 27]

Thank you all for the advice! I started a new job this week and have been busy with that. I'll tear into the motor some this weekend and try and get some more info. I would love to go to 408W but just don't have the money currently obviously but eventually will buy a 351 block and build that slowly as money and time Permit. Barnett, rear gears should be 2.89 and I have seen that cam but would that give better performance over stock cam? Sorry if that is an uneducated question but I am still learning.

[Tgriffin91 27]

Thank you all for the advice! I started a new job this week and have been busy with that. I'll tear into the motor some this weekend and try and get some more info. I would love to go to 408W but just don't have the money currently obviously but eventually will buy a 351 block and build that slowly as money and time Permit. Barnett, rear gears should be 2.89 and I have seen that cam but would that give better performance over stock cam? Sorry if that is an uneducated question but I am still learning.

[Tgriffin91 27]

deleted double post

[barnett468 418]

No prob, we will get you a fairly fast , reliable, 351 then.

 

The 2 most poplular cams for that would be a comp xe268 and xe274 . The xe274 really needs good aftermarket heads to get the optimum perf out of it . I can get you chinese aluminum heads for around $900.00 or you can get yours rebuilt and modified a little for around $600.00 with new springs.

 

Ideally, you would use different heads on a stroker than you would on a built 351 because of the air flow requirements so the biggest decision yu need to make is what to do for heads as there is not much point in buying expensive heads for the 351 then buying another set of expensive heads for the stroker.

 

You can get a decent aftermarket crank for around $400.00 . Your crank will likely need to be machined which might cost around $200.00 so you need to decide what you want to spend there also . A stock crank is good enough for a moderate street engine that might get revved to around 5600 rpm on occasion . They will take more rpm but after around 5700 you are pressing your luck.

 

With modified stock heads and a stock crank and your 3.70 rear gears, I would consider the comp xe268h cam or something similar with an eddy rpm intake and better rods or better rod bolts in the stock rods . Scorpion roller rockers are the best bank for the buck but you can get comp roller tip rockers for around $100.00 less but modifying the heads will blow your budget so you might just consider grinding the exhaust slightly as someone previously mentioned . You can still use the xe268 cam but it just won't provide as much power . The heads are the key to power.

[69isfine 10]

On 2017-02-25 at 7:44 PM, JoeyS said:

Here is a link to the pdf "how to rebuild your SMALL-BLOCK FORD"

Thanks. I am heading this way as well as of this week.