Question regarding bonding the end caps and head light buckets to the car

[MikeStang 247]

Okay I am not a huge fan of doing this but my buddy wants to bond the headlight buckets to the front fenders and the tail caps to the rear quarters on his 68 FB we are building for his wife.. The car is a restomod and he likes the look of the fenders with no gap between them as well as the smooth look of the back end with the Valance welded to the quarters and the tail caps bonded to the quarters.

Now I don't know of any way to weld the pot metal parts to the sheet metal, So I am assuming that most of these high end cars use panel bond in these area's and then just cinch the caps and buckets down with the fasteners and then use some kind of filler to fill the seams.

 

My concern is that I have seen a few cars done like this and the joints always crack through the paint eventually.

 

Is there a metal type filler that can be used to take care of this ?

 

He is dead set on doing this so I need the best suggestions from all you guys on how to best accomplish this shit and not have the seams crack through the paint in a few years.... So lets hear them...

[mustangstofear 608]

Don't even think about doing it, and I'll leave it at that. 

[Ridge Runner 1,114]

Yup ...What he said !

[Ridge Runner 1,114]

If i could post pics ,i would show what happens when you bond on end caps and headlight buckets .It will ruin your day ...and a very expensive paint job .I have an Eleanor here with everything bonded and it is cracking every where and will not be fun fixing ,I am making everything bolt on .

[barnett468 418]

do not use bondo . use sandable flexible filler and flexible sandable primer/surfacer . paint shops sell it

[SWPruett 83]

The only "proper" way to mold the end caps and front buckets into the quarters/fenders (in my experience/opinion) is to shape new parts from sheet metal and weld them to the base panels and metal finish the seams to a smooth result.  This requires A LOT of metal shaping skill and equipment that most shops don't have (in both cases).  I have no idea what kind of budget your friend has in mind, but if this is something he is serious about doing at the highest quality level, that's the technique that will get it done.  As for cost, it will require rather substantial stacks of Benji's for quality work.

[MikeStang 247]

When I say Bonded on I mean we WILL use the bolts in the caps and buckets and BOLT the pieces on to the car, and use something like PAnel Bond to be sure they stay in 1 place, but you guys are saying that filling the seams is going to be a disaster and will result in cracking paint eh?

 

There has got to be a way to Bolt & Glue these bitches on and fill the seam without having cracks show up short of building new metal pieces and welding them to the car... I mean how do those bolted and bonded on fiberglass side scoops and shit stay on and not crack?

 

Im not saying anyone is wrong or right but I cant understand why there is such a big difference with filling the gaps between the buckets and fenders or end caps and quarters as opposed to bolting and bonding on ground effects and side scoops and filling those gaps and molding them into the car.

[barnett468 418]

There has got to be a way to Bolt & Glue these bitches on and fill the seam without having cracks show up short of building new metal pieces and welding them to the car...

 

i told you one way to do it and that is with bolting them on

[MikeStang 247]

Well we intended on bolting them on to the car, that was kind of a given that we would do that, but should we also add some sort of Panel Bonding agent as well to help secure them for added security... I have seen head light buckets and tail light caps move even when bolted on good...

And your saying use a flexible type filler and primer as well correct Barnett?

 

I wonder how ledding the seam up would do...I have a good friend who still practices that age old technique and does a mighty fine job

[MikeStang 247]

Why cant someone just manufacture these buckets and end caps from sheet metal dammit....it cant be that hard LOL

[MikeStang 247]

Here's another question.

The car has some nice looking sheet metal ground effects that the PO installed and applied filler over.

WE are going to remove the filler and see how he attached the ground effects. Im thinking he tack welded them on because they are loose in the rear on one side and his welding skills sucked badly.

My question is should I fully weld them out all the way down the rocker panel doing an inch or 2 at a time and moving from front to back, or should I just tack them on every inch or so and apply some good flexible filler?

[barnett468 418]

the panel bond like 50/50 will simply squish out . yes using lead is another option but may have some other complications . the parts you saw move were not secured properly.

[MikeStang 247]

Yeah like I said we are going to remove all the filler and see how the PO secured the ground effects on.

Should they be fully welded out from one end to the other doing it little at a time and skipping around till they are done, or will tack welds every inch or so do the trick?

So once its all good and secured, and welds are ground down would the Rage Gold be a good filler to cover it all up with or should I opt for something with a bit more flexibility to it? a premium filler with short strand glass perhaps?

[barnett468 418]

how are you planning to resolve the end cap and headlight housing issue?

 

full welds are the best on steel to steel but you have to go a little at a time to minimize warping . it's a major pita

[MikeStang 247]

Well it seems I managed to talk my buddy out of the tower and convinced him that we shouldn't fill the gaps between the buckets and fenders or between the caps and quarters LOL... Likely I just saved him a lot of money.

 

I did talk to the guys at "The Restomod Store" and asked them how they went about filling the gaps on the Green 67 FB "Calling Card" that they built.

 

They said they used a form of panel bond applied to the caps and quarter, then bolted it on and lined it up. Once it was on he said they cleaned the panel bond off that seaped out, and recessed the joint line down a little "I am assuming that this was done to give the filler a place to lock in" He then said that they used a short stranded fiberglass reinforced filler to build the area up and cover the seam, then added standard premium light weight filler to that....

When I asked if it had cracked yet he said no but he had seen some swelling after the car was completed and had been driven and shown and sat in the sun a lot, but due to the light color of the car no one ever sees it until its pointed out.

 

I sure do like that smooth look but to be honest I am not prepared to paint a car only to have the paint start cracking and looking like crap.... There has got to be a Sure Fire method to making it stay and not crack LOL... Okay whose up for making some sheet metal caps and headlight buckets HaHa

[3pedal 95]

Don't do it...I don't believe there is any product on this earth that will permanently work without shrinking and or cracking....

[Ridge Runner 1,114]

You will see a line or a crack sooner or later no mater what you use ,the two materials are to different from each other and expand and contract differently at different temps .If the car is ever pushed from the end caps that is when it will probably crack ,vibration will also help it crack .I recently pulled the hood scoop off a 67 hood that had been bonded on with the 3 M black panel bond ,i was surprised at just how easy it came off .The panel bond just cracked and off it came ,saved the scoop ,the hood was wrecked in the nose .

[MikeStang 247]

Yeah my 69 has a crack in the line right below the window on the pass side, I told the body guy to make the line deeper and not fill it at all if he could help it so that when it did develop a crack it would be down in the seam, but he didn't listen and not I have a nice single little crack in the clear that is just outside of the little joint where the quarter and filler panel meet up :(

 

Anyone ever seen those alladin 4 in 1 rods used to bond pot metal to a metal screw? I found a video of that online...

 

So whose up for making some caps from sheet metal...I know one of yall has to have the skills for that LOL

[Rsanter 152]

If you are going to do it I would say the panel bond has the best chance of any fillers you will use.

In the old days they would lay a layer of fiberglass over the end cap and the qtr and blend it in. Fiberglass bonding to metal has its own issues.

 

Back when I was in high school there was a guy that used a small tip torch and brass brased the end caps and fender extension on. He used no filler after that and I was surprised at how long those seemed to stay without cracking. I knew him for several years before loosing touch and I never saw them crack. But who knows after that.

 

I have seen a couple people make sheet metal end caps for 65-6 cars, those are not to hard. The 69-70 fastback does not seem like they would be too bad to make but the 67-8 seems like the hardest ones

 

Bob

[SWPruett 83]

MikeStang, where are you located?

[MikeStang 247]

I am in Lake Charles Louisiana Right now Pruett, but will be home in Denham Springs Louisiana in a few short days...Why what's up?

[SWPruett 83]

Just wanted to try to get you talking to a highly skilled metal shaper relatively close to you guys that can fab the pieces.  Off the cuff, I'd recommend Levi Green at Hammerfab near Austin.