UCA Shims

[Len69Coupe 33]

So I'm in the process of doing a front end rebuild and when I went to remove the drivers side UCA I noticed shims behind the rear part of the UCA. I'm guessing these are for alignment. After I get the car back together I will have an alignment done anyway, but should I reinstall these when I install the new UCA or leave them out?

[Midlife 814]

I'd leave them out upon installation, but have them handy when you get an alignment.  I thought the 67 on up Mustangs didn't need UCA shims for alignments, but one can still use shims if you can't get enough adjustment otherwise.

[lanky 44]

Since you are doing a rebuild, I assume you are going to do the shelby drop? If you're going to, just relocate the upper arm holes slightly back,1/4" or so. That would give the car more caster off the bat without relying on shims, how short the strut rods adjust to, and it would keep the wheel from being forward in the wheel well from adding caster (if you need it). Mine is very far forward in the wheel because I dropped my locating holes 90 degrees (like normal) and I have a lot of caster.

[RPM 1,190]

I thought the 67 on up Mustangs didn't need UCA shims for alignments,

I've read that a lot online, but my 69 Assembly Manual shows the shims and my car had them when I bought it in 1989, which means nothing other than they were there.

[1969_Mach1 333]

1969 does not use shims in that location for an alignment.  Somebody installed them because for some reason the camber or caster adjustments at the lower control arm pivot or strut rod were insufficient.  Could have simply been due to worn suspension parts.  Sometimes an alignment person doesn't know and makes alignment adjustments with shims as if it were an GM product.  Worse case is I've seen shims at the upper control arm pivot shaft mounts because the shock tower is sagging inward.  Your shock tower looks fairly solid and okay in the picture.

[Len69Coupe 33]

Midlife, on 06 Dec 2016 - 8:27 PM, said:

I'd leave them out upon installation, but have them handy when you get an alignment.  I thought the 67 on up Mustangs didn't need UCA shims for alignments, but one can still use shims if you can't get enough adjustment otherwise.

Thanks. That's was what I was thinking.

 

lanky, on 06 Dec 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:

Since you are doing a rebuild, I assume you are going to do the shelby drop? If you're going to, just relocate the upper arm holes slightly back,1/4" or so. That would give the car more caster off the bat without relying on shims, how short the strut rods adjust to, and it would keep the wheel from being forward in the wheel well from adding caster (if you need it). Mine is very far forward in the wheel because I dropped my locating holes 90 degrees (like normal) and I have a lot of caster.

Still debating the Shelby drop. I'd read that for regular street driving that it's not really necessary. Did you notice a difference?

 

RPM, on 06 Dec 2016 - 11:15 PM, said:

I've read that a lot online, but my 69 Assembly Manual shows the shims and my car had them when I bought it in 1989, which means nothing other than they were there.

Thanks for the info.

 

1969_Mach1, on 07 Dec 2016 - 12:47 AM, said:

1969 does not use shims in that location for an alignment.  Somebody installed them because for some reason the camber or caster adjustments at the lower control arm pivot or strut rod were insufficient.  Could have simply been due to worn suspension parts.  Sometimes an alignment person doesn't know and makes alignment adjustments with shims as if it were an GM product.  Worse case is I've seen shims at the upper control arm pivot shaft mounts because the shock tower is sagging inward.  Your shock tower looks fairly solid and okay in the picture.

Hmmm... the ball joints had been replaced previously and with the exception of the boots were in good shape. When I removed that UCA though I could feel play from left to right. Could be the reason the shims were needed.

 

Thanks all.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I'd leave the shims out after rebuilding the front suspension.  If an alignment person wants to reinstall shims, question them as to why before letting them do that

[lanky 44]

I did a bunch of other changes at the same time when I lowered my control arms so it's tough to say, however I did articulate the suspension springless to see camber curve and it was pretty different from factory. Its easy to do and I think everybody not trying to do a concourse restoration should.

[Len69Coupe 33]

Thanks. I hope I can find a good alignment shop when the time comes.

[Len69Coupe 33]

So if I do the Shelby 1" drop do I need to do the wedge kit?

 

Oh, and is the Shelby drop recommended on manual steering? I'd hate to increase how hard the steering turns.

[RPM 1,190]

The word is up to 1" drop you don't need to worry about the ball joint angle. The control arm geometry imho will not affect how stiff the steering is unless you adjust them with a lot, say +3° of caster. I have the Arning/Shelby 1" UCA drop on mine with manual steering and it steers quite easily with 245/40-18. So easy in fact that I'm thinking of putting on some 275/35-18's on the front. My alignment specs are -.9° camber, +2° caster and zero toe. I've only had it up to 45 mph but it steers very nice at slow speeds with the manual steering.

[Len69Coupe 33]

RPM, on 08 Dec 2016 - 5:59 PM, said:

 

The word is up to 1" drop you don't need to worry about the ball joint angle. The control arm geometry imho will not affect how stiff the steering is unless you adjust them with a lot, say +3° of caster. I have the Arning/Shelby 1" UCA drop on mine with manual steering and it steers quite easily with 245/40-18. So easy in fact that I'm thinking of putting on some 275/35-18's on the front. My alignment specs are -.9° camber, +2° caster and zero toe. I've only had it up to 45 mph but it steers very nice at slow speeds with the manual steering.

Great! Thanks for the help.

[lanky 44]

RPM what size steering wheel do you use? With a 14" I could barely turn the car at low speeds with manual steering with 235/45/17. That was with 2.5+ caster. The feel once moving was nice though.

[RPM 1,190]

It's a 15" diameter. I do have a Flaming River box, don't know if that makes a difference.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I drove my 69 Mach 1 with a manual steering setup for several years using the stock 15" diameter steering wheel.  It's not bad when you are moving.  At low speeds like trying to navigate a parking lot and making u-turns are a little challenging.  I was using the stock 16:1 ratio steering box.  I think the Flaming River steering box also has a 16:1 ratio.  Things like tire width and engine weight affect turning effort.

 

I would advise with manual steering, make certain the rag joint is in good condition.

[lanky 44]

1969 Mach: Were you running larger wheels and tires at the time?

 

Wow I am confused right now. I was running only an inch smaller wheel and I swear it was a freaking bear to turn the wheel at low speeds. Could a half a degree of caster really up the effort of my setup that much? I was using the factory 16:1 box but for some reason I wouldn't think there would be much of a difference. I even properly lubed the box, which was in great working order and still pretty tight too. That was why I went with the Borgeson setup in the first place, which I think so is not so great.

[RPM 1,190]

I last drove my brother's R Code less than a year ago with the stock 14" tires, steering wheel and stock box manual steering. Yikes, way too difficult for my old muscles. Now for what it's worth my top end is aluminum while his is cast iron, so...

[lanky 44]

Wow so you think the lighter engine parts are why yours is more manageable? Mine was still all iron. I have an aluminum intake and new carb waiting to go on, and then headers, but I won't be touching the heads or other engine parts for a looong time. You have a 302 based motor too probably?

[RPM 1,190]

351W. I think the new box, lighter front end and all new moving parts. Plus, I'm better looking than him.

[1969_Mach1 333]

1969 Mach: Were you running larger wheels and tires at the time?

 

Wow I am confused right now. I was running only an inch smaller wheel and I swear it was a freaking bear to turn the wheel at low speeds. Could a half a degree of caster really up the effort of my setup that much? I was using the factory 16:1 box but for some reason I wouldn't think there would be much of a difference. I even properly lubed the box, which was in great working order and still pretty tight too. That was why I went with the Borgeson setup in the first place, which I think so is not so great.

I was and still am running the stock 14" chrome styled steel wheels with an original size tire.  Yeah, at low speeds, like trying to back out of a parking spot in a parking lot where you have to move slow, it was tough to turn the steering wheel.  Mine is a 351W/4sp car.  The motor is all cast iron except the intake manifold.    

[Len69Coupe 33]

So I bought the front end rebuild kit from Mustang's Unlimited, which included the UCA's, LCA's, spring perches etc. Should the UCA's be ready to install? I shouldn't have to adjust the caps right? I've read when you rebuild them you should spot weld the caps. Do I need to do this on new UCA's?

 

I also ordered the Shelby Drop template :)

[moodster 55]

The UCA's are generally not ready to install.  Use a dial gauge to measure between the end of the cap and the bolt on both sides.  You balance it so that both distances are the same.  You may have to twist the caps to get the distance the same.  Once this process is done you should spot weld each cap in three places or more so that it can't come off.

 

david

[RPM 1,190]

With stock arms if you tighten them while the car is raised and the suspension hanging, the rubber bushings will fight to stay in that position and cause your car to ride too high.

[1969_Mach1 333]

Regarding the upper control arms.  If you rotate those caps you will probably need to tack weld them to ensure they stay in place.  The outer thread on the cap that is very fine compared to the inner thread that fits over the shaft.  In my experiences trying to rebuild upper control arms when you rotate the caps the fine outer thread destroys the control arm.  If you are careful rotating the caps a small amount at a time you might be successful.  If they measure to be close to centered, I would leave them alone.  If one is far from being centered, look into exchanging it.

[Len69Coupe 33]

Ok thanks. I guess I'll measure the old UCA's and compare those dimension's to the new. I really didn't have to jack around with those caps, but I want to make sure I put it back together correctly.

 

All adjustments to the caps and spot welds should be made before installing them right?