DSS Racing

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Has anyone used a "DSS Racing" block or have any experience with them?

I'm looking at their LVL20-351W which has this description:

These D.S.S. Level 20 CNC race prepped engine blocks feature D.S.S.'s special ultra seal cylinder prep. This very detailed and time consuming process provides ring seal and power second to none. They have over 35 blueprinting operations, dyno proven to produce 40+ horsepower over standard production blocks. D.S.S. Level 20 CNC race prepped engine blocks have advanced features like their elliptical cylinder chamfer, threaded freeze plugs and are CNC stroker clearanced, providing you the ultimate bottom end for your engine.

 

Thanks for any input

[machm1970 180]

A friend got one of their 302 short blocks and is happy with it, he's still assembling it though.

Matt

[barnett468 418]

they dont say what procedures they do

 

they do say if they 0 deck the block and square it to the crank.

 

there is no way they get 40 more than anyone else ca plus they dont say what hp the engine was they got 40 more hp on.

 

from what their ad say, it looks like a waste of money to me.

[jjstang 51]

Ok, here's my stupid question... It's my understanding when you blueprint an engine, your building/machining to the exact engineers original specifications.  So once you start modifying and/or improving, how can it be blueprinted??  Do I understand the definition of blueprinting incorrectly.  Sorry, I wasn't trying to hijack the thread, it's just every time I see blueprinting and improved in the same description I get befuddled. 

[Mach1 Driver 560]

they dont say what procedures they do

 

they do say if they 0 deck the block and square it to the crank.

 

there is no way they get 40 more than anyone else ca plus they dont say what hp the engine was they got 40 more hp on.

 

from what their ad say, it looks like a waste of money to me.

Yeah the 40+ hp is marketing hype. They couldn't tell me if their cylinder prep was plateau honing.

My problem is how to get a 1971 or later block ( I want the taller deck) that only need the bore opened .030. Most places will only guarantee .060.

[RPM 1,190]

Ok, here's my stupid question... It's my understanding when you blueprint an engine, your building/machining to the exact engineers original specifications.  So once you start modifying and/or improving, how can it be blueprinted??  Do I understand the definition of blueprinting incorrectly.

It's my understanding that blueprinting is building an engine to a particular set of clearances. They could be the factory's, yours or a shops measurements.

[barnett468 418]

Yeah the 40+ hp is marketing hype. They couldn't tell me if their cylinder prep was plateau honing.

My problem is how to get a 1971 or later block ( I want the taller deck) that only needs the bore opened .030. Most places will only guarantee .060.

 

.060? . Thats a junk block imo . Yes you may get away with it but you can't bore it any more so its not practical to put a ton of money into it, but you already know that.

 

i would think you could find one at a junk yard or on craigslist or ebay that is standard then just go .020" over with it.

 

You really should consider a brand new Dart block because you can go big with the bore on one of those too.

[barnett468 418]

When referring to blueprinting an engine, one of the most common meanings is to make a block to factory specs but what does this really mean and what do they really do?

 

Different blocks have different areas that can be improved from stock and one of those is the oil galleys . The galley entrance for the oil pump is radiused on some and enlarged on others as is the galley from the oil pump adapter on big blocks.

 

The block should be 0 decked, however, this sometimes means reducing the height beyond the factory spec, in which case the engine is being "blueprinted" to the existing parts.

[Stangboy 14]

"Blueprinting", at least in the old school racer's book, was everything from square decking the block, line honing, chasing all the bolt holes and chamfering the top of the holes to prevent stress cracks from forming, deburring the interior and exterior of the block again to prevent stress cracks, polishing the lifter valley to aid in oil drain back, honing the cylinders with a torque plate to ensure the cylinder bore was round when the head was torqued down, honing the connecting rods to ensure all the piston had the same deck height when installed, hand filing the rings to get the correct gap, mixing and matching bearing halves to get the correct clearances, in addition to setting up the rod & crank clearances to maximum to reduce friction. This required a hi volume oil pump, and the oil passages would be radiused, as well as opening up the oil pump and deburring the interior of it, and I'm sure I missed a lot of other things. Check out some of the NHRA Stick Eliminatir classes to see what a totally blueprinted engine is capable of.

[barnett468 418]

Bearing halves do not need to be mixed to get the right clearance if the engine is "blueprinted" . This is because the crankshaft main and rod journals and rod ends and journals in the block will have been machined to the proper size . Using two different size bearing halves is a band aid used to correct a problem that should not exist on a properly machined engine and is not a practice used in NHRA or Nascar.

 

One way to improve piston ring seal is to run the top of the piston above the block but this is not recommended for street use . Gas ported pistons also help . Some of the compression goes thru the top of the piston and enters on the back side of the ring which forces it outward against the bore.

 

Large bearing clearances have nothing to do with "blueprinting" . The bearing clearance is determined by the type of use . Not all bluprinted" engines need to be full blown race engines.

 

A PROPERLY "blueprinted" engine would also have the lifter bores trued and below is one way to do that.

 

http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_content/products/blueprintfixt/bp_intro.php

 

[Stangboy 14]

Notice I said "old school" racers definition. Modern synthetic oils allow for much tighter bearing clearances. As far as mixing and matching bearing, just about every major bearing manafacturer offers bearings made for this purpose, so it seems to be far from an uncommon practice. Even some of their literature refers to "mixing" bearing shells to fine tune the clearances needed.

[barnett468 418]

I am an old school racer.

[barnett468 418]

Notice I said "old school" racers definition. Modern synthetic oils allow for much tighter bearing clearances. As far as mixing and matching bearing, just about every major bearing manafacturer offers bearings made for this purpose, so it seems to be far from an uncommon practice. Even some of their literature refers to "mixing" bearing shells to fine tune the clearances needed.

 

Well, I am an old school racer and i have been building engines and restoring cars for a living for 40 years and I know many other professional engine builders and none of us mix bearings as a norm, because as I said, it is not a normal thing to do and the bearing mfgs do not make bearings for this purpose . they make different sizes to be used as a pair but as i said, some people mix and match them because their other parts are not in spec, and yes some bearing mfg's say you can mix bearing sizes which you "can", but again, that is not why they make different sizes and it does not mean it is a normal practice or a good practice to mix them.

 

You will never, ever, find mixed size bearings in a box stock engine . Why is that? . It is because all the parts are machined to the proper spec for the application . When I and other engine builders want a particular clearance, we either machine the parts ourselves or have others machine the parts to a spec that will give us the clearance we want . If the parts are machined incorrectly, we fire the machinist and move on to one that knows what they are doing . The finest you can "tune" a clearance to is .0005" . This is because the bearings come in .001" sizes, and if a machinist can't machine a part to a tolerance less than .005", he is not a machinist, he is a butcher, and unfortunately there are lots of butchers out there.

 

If your engine builder told you it was common practice for him to mix bearings, I would find a better engine builder.

 

Also, modern "synthetic" oils do not allow for "significantly" tighter bearing clearances, and in fact, Group III "synthetic oil is basically nothing more than a highly refined oil where all the molecules are basically the same size . The difference in the size of the molecules in non synthetic oils is still extremely small which is why the difference in clearances that can be run between the two types of oil is very small . Also, not all Group III oil is the same because there is only a minimum amount of synthetic oil required to be used to call it a synthetic oil and some mfgs use far less than others . Also, the additive packages used are all mixed with non synthetic oil and they can constitute up to around 15% of the total oil, therefore, there is no true 100% synthetic oil anyway.

 

For people that have an oil fetish like i do, they can check out the site below . Also look up PAO, mPAO, and Ester oil . Joe Gibbs Racing has a line of oil made from mPAO which has a viscosity index of 200, which is the higest of any oil, and in fact, they use the exact same oil their Nascar engines that they sell to the public.

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

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[Mach1 Driver 560]

I don't know about you guys, but when barnett expounds on a subject I take note. It's great to have resident experts!! There are always "gems" in there to be mined.

[1969Fstback 58]

I don't know about you guys, but when barnett expounds on a subject I take note. It's great to have resident experts!! There are always "gems" in there to be mined.

I've learned a ton of passive information from his posts.  I read his posts on topics that have nothing to do with my car build now and probably never.