FE Block, Comp Cam 270 Magnum, Issues

[barnett468 418]

I think I will do as you suggest, wait until I get the current cam out before buying a replacement.  Thanks for mentioning lifters, I was just planning on buying a cam and lifter set (from Comp, etc).  Are the comp cams lifters problematic?  Should I avoid them if I go with a comp cam.  Thanks again for all your help.

i am a comp cams dealer and i quit selling comp cams lifters . hopefully this will sufficiently answer your question.

 

i have not seen a roller cam small enough for your app, and the cam and lifters will cost you at least twice as mch

[1969_Mach1 333]

i am a comp cams dealer and i quit selling comp cams lifters . hopefully this will sufficiently answer your question.

 

i have not seen a roller cam small enough for your app, and the cam and lifters will cost you at least twice as mch

I always wondered why only promote Comp Cams (at least the threads I've read).  Now I know.  I'm sure there stuff is fine.  As you can guess,  I'm not Comp's biggest fan.  From the little I have seen the quality of their off-the-shelf stuff always looks to have inferior quality to others.  From what I understand, now only their custom grind cams are made here in USA. 

 

I do agree, converting to a hyd roller would be very costly for that motor.  Also, for that situation, there are probably more hyd. flat tappet cams to choose from.  I have been browsing through cams for a 390 FE motor for a 1956 F100 pick up project and have noticed there are few off-the-shelf hyd. roller cam options.  I'll probably stay with a hyd. flat tappet cam.  Just be sure to use the appropriate oil in it.

[Rsmach1 71]

I always wondered why only promote Comp Cams (at least the threads I've read). Now I know. I'm sure there stuff is fine. As you can guess, I'm not Comp's biggest fan.

Nor am I anymore, I like Lunati's Voodoo line for off the shelf cams (still Udharold's design's).

[barnett468 418]

I always wondered why only promote Comp Cams (at least the threads I've read).  Now I know. From what I understand, now only their custom grind cams are made here in USA.

That is an inaccurate assumption . Just to clarify, first of all, I don't make a penny from anything I suggest, therefore there is no incentive for me to suggest one mfg over another . Secondly, I am also Crane dealer but I didn't suggest a Crane cam . Thirdly, I frequently suggest Lunati and Howards cams . Fourthly I suggest what I think is best for someones particular app irregardless of mfg . If you read my posts again, they say that I am a Comp dealer but I suggested Crane or Crower lifters, even though I am not a Crower dealer and I also suggested Straub Technologies if he wanted a custom cam and I have no affiliation with them.

 

If the Lunati 256 or 262 cam had a 110 LSA, I wouldn't have even suggested the Comp, because imo, it would have been a better choice due to the higher lift Lastly, it is also inaccurate that only their custom cams are made in the US . In fact, their custom cams are made from exactly the same cores that all their other cams come from.

 

Here's some trivia . The person that designed the XE line and others for Comp Cams also designed the Voodoo line for Lunati after he left Comp . He eventually started his own cam company called Ultradyne which is now owned by Bullet cams..

 

Comp Cams owns Lunati and Crane.

 

Comp Cams has some parts made in India.

 

Some places do use overseas cores but the ones that use US made cores all get them from one of two different cam suppliers with the exception of Crane whom casts at least some of their own cores.

 

There are basically only 3 lifter mfg's in the US, and most of the lifters EVERYONE sells comes from one of these three mfg's.

[1969_Mach1 333]

Yeah, I know you don't make any money from suggesting any products.  I wasn't suggesting that by any means.  And some may not agree, but in my opinion your posts are pretty accurate and correct.  But it seems regardless of who posts, seems every time a thread involves cams, Comp's Xtreme Energy series dominates the conversation.  I partly start to think, doesn't anybody look to see what other manufacturers offer?

 

I have a pretty good idea what changing the LSA does.  But, I am curious the reason why the same person designed that designed the XE line on a 110 LSA designed the Voodoo series with a 112 LSA?  What were they after with the Voodoo series, broader more gradual torque curve, better idle quality? 

[barnett468 418]

Yeah, I know you don't make any money from suggesting any products.  I wasn't suggesting that by any means.  Regardless of who posts, it just seems every time a thread involves cams, Comp's Xtreme Energy series dominates the conversation.  I partly start to think, doesn't anybody look to see what other manufacturers offer?

 

I have a pretty good idea what changing the LSA does.  But, I am curious the reason why the same person designed that designed the XE line on a 110 LSA designed the Voodoo series with a 112 LSA?  What were they after with the Voodoo series, broader more gradual torque curve, better idle quality?

From the Comp line I do suggest a lot of XE cams because imo, those are best suited to the particular app . From the Lunati I often suggest something from the Voodoo line . Both of these lines are the most popular from both of these companies . No one knows why the cam designer did that on some of the Voodoo line but it is on the smaller cams . The bigger cams are 110 lsa so try and figure that one out . If you closely compare the two lines, you will find that many of the Voodoo cams are inbetween the Comp XE cams . My guess for this is simply marketing . I'm guessing that the figured they would sell more cams if they had something slightly different to offer than Comp did . Keep in mind that they intentionally made a fast ramp series of cams to compete with comps XE series and if they made them the same as the comp cams there wouldn't be any real reason for people to buy the better known name brand . One thing the cam designer did with the Lunati Voodo cams is put higher lift in them than the comps have.

 

As far as cams from other mfg's, one of the sleepers is Howards and I'm guessing that is because they don't advertise but I know from dealing with them and getting the full specs on many of their cams that they are often better than both Comp and Lunatis . One of the things to look for are the duration numbers at .200" of lift but unfortunately no mfg's list those with their other general specs . This number helps ascertain the cams ramp rate per se . Another good cam company is Bullet and they in fact have lobes with the steepest ramps of all and they can pretty much suggest a good cam over the phone based on a particular engine combo and in fact, they are used by a couple different independent cam designers when they need a cam ground.

 

 

VOODOO 112 LSA

 

https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1641&gid=287

 

 

VOODOO 110 LSA

 

https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1646&gid=287

[moose425 16]

You guys are giving me an education!  All good info.  Right now, sounds like I will go with the Crane anti pump-up lifters.  Thanks. 

[jholmes217 65]

I'm running an Oregon Cams in my 428 that is very similar to the Comp 280H.  I have a 3:50 rear end with a close ratio toploader.  I am running adjustable valve train (POPs) and a Blue Thunder intake with a 750 cfm carb.  Exhaust is Hooker Super Comps with Purple Hornie header mufflers.  I have no issues with vacuum, bottom end power from a stop is still pretty good, and it has a very noticeable lope at idle.  It really starts to pull strong at about 1700 RPM.  I'm also running a Mallory Unililte distributor with all advance in at 2500 RPM.  I had a Comp XE 274H that was nice in a 302, but no experience with that grind in an FE.  I recommend calling Ken at Oregon Cams and explain what you have, and what you want the car to do.  http://www.oregoncamshaft.com/

[harrellv10 0]

I second the above recommendations for going hydraulic roller. It will cost a bit more, but it is certainly doable and will yield more power and reliability across the entire RPM band than any flat tappet can. There are plenty of off-the shelf grinds out there if you call and ask some reputable engine builders. I would start with Barry Rabotnick. He even has a HR cam kit library on his website. Check it out. I think the very first one he lists would suit you well.

 

It is a HR, 260/267 adv duration. 206/214 at .050". .531/.540" lift. 114 LSA. He lists just the cam for about $335. He sells HR lifter kits for between $400 and $500. You would need to ask him for a valve spring recommendation, but I bet  the Edelbrock springs that cam with the Eddy heads will be just fine with that cam grind. He also lists several similar cams with 112 degree LSA.

 

Or, have you considered upgrading to a 1.9 ratio roller rocker shaft system? Barry also sells the 1.9 ratio sets made by T&D. They are top quality and the added rocker arm ratio will add a little duration at .050" without affecting advertised duration. You will hear it in the idle, but not so much that it is obnoxious. You will get more lift, more aggressive ramp rates, less friction, and the above mentioned idle and duration effects.

 

The roller rocker conversion will not net you quite as much power as the cam upgrade, though, and it will cost about the same, so my recommendation, if you are willing to spend about $1000, is to do the HR cam upgrade and enjoy your Mustang.

 

Either way, I'm curious to see what you do and how it turns out. Good luck with the project!

[moose425 16]

Lots of information!!  I've been thinking this cam replacement through and through.  I just spent over $1000 rebuilding my toploader, along with a new Ram stock type clutch and flywheel.  My budget for replacing my cam/lifters is limited.  I simply don't think I can afford to go with a hydraulic roller configuration.   Too many bills and not enough money!!  More so, when I realize as part of this cam replacement I am going to put in a new waterpump, as well as timing chain/sprockets, and all the miscellaneous stuff that comes up.  

 

I don't drive this car hard, it goes to local cruise-in's here once or twice a week.  About the only thing I do is come off red lights a little quick.  I've owned this car for five years, and never had any issues with the flat tappet cam I presently have.  All I am really after is putting a little lope in the exhaust as that sound is music to my ears and is intoxicating!!  As you can see from my previous photos, I have standard OEM rockers and rocker shafts.  I can't afford to replace those with performance versions.  I don't think I even want to put more lift on my existing rockers/shafts, as I have been at cruise-in's and seen guys with FE blocks break rocker arms due to excessive cams.  I don't want to go through that.  I am not certain what cam I have now, but I was told when I bought the car it was basically a stock cam because the previous owner did not like lope in the exhaust.  I will check my existing cam when I remove it.  

 

Right now, I am wondering if the best thing to do is have a cam custom ground that is basically what I have now with just a little overlap to provide some lope.  Basically, keep the lift close to stock (which I think is around .427 intake and .431 exhaust), keep the duration down to about stock, and just reduce the LSA so I have a little overlap.  Another option I guess would be to have a cam custom ground to a comp cams xe262H spec except reduce the lift to closer to stock.  The three things I am after on this cam/lifter replacement is;  (1) a little lope in the exhaust, (2) keep it reliable, no broken rockers, shafts, push rods, springs, etc, and (3) keep the cost down.  I welcome anyone's opinion on my ideas!  You guys are making me smart!!!

 

Thanks.       

[barnett468 418]

.

If your heads have the eddy flat tappet springs, you can run a .550 lift cam with those rockers no prob, especially since they have those fancy end supports.

 

It still looks like your best off the shelf bet is the Comp XE256H or XE262H

[moose425 16]

I like your idea of just going with the stock off the shelf xe262H, with the crane lifters you mentioned previously.  It sounds like you are of the opinion I won't have issues with components in my valve train with that xe262h off the shelf cam.  I'll always take reliability over performance, as performance is out of my budget.  Right now my plan going forward, is to remove my existing cam and see if I can determine make/model.  At the very least I should be able to determine lift myself.  If it appears the xe262H will satisfy my criteria, then that will be what I purchase along with the crane lifters you suggested.  I welcome anyone else's opinions.  Thanks so much.      

[barnett468 418]

Keep in mind that the xe262h will have slightly less bottom end than the xe256h, but it will have more lope so you need to decide which is more important to you . that being said, the xe262 is by no means a "big" cam for a 390.

 

i would also use s break in oil like joe gibbs, then after break in i would use an oil with over 1100 ppm of ZDDP or ZDDB.

[moose425 16]

I have been using the zinc substitute they sell at O'Reilly auto parts.  This engine has a Milodon 8 qt sump, so I have been using about 1.5 bottles of the O'Reilly stuff at my yearly oil change.    I noticed comp cams sells a break in additive.  Is it OK if I just go with the comp cams break in additive along with my synthetic Castrol when I replace the cam?  After that, I was just planning on using the O'Reilly additive at every oil change.    

[barnett468 418]

well you can do what you prefer but i don't do things that way.

[moose425 16]

What is the difference between the two lifters you recommend, the crane anti-pump up and the crower?  What is a cheater lifter vs. a high lube they mention on the crower web site?  Thanks for the info.  

[barnett468 418]

What is the difference between the two lifters you recommend, the crane anti-pump up and the crower?  What is a cheater lifter vs. a high lube they mention on the crower web site?  Thanks for the info.

the cranes perform better under igher spring pressures and higher rpm than many others . the crower lifters supply additional oil t the cam to try and increase its life but unless you have high spring rates it is a bit of overkill but it certainly won't hurt anything.

[moose425 16]

My block has been 0 decked.  If I go with the HE262H cam with the increased lift over stock, need I have any concern about valve/piston interferences?  I don't want any surprises when I start up the engine! Thanks for all the help.