EFI install options

[Mach1 Driver 560]

If the 3/8" metal tubing has a straight cut end you simply slide a 6 AN tube nut and a 6 AN tube sleeve over the tube then flare the tube end to 37 degrees with a flaring tool.  Now the tube end is setup for 6 AN and you can attach to it any 6 AN fitting you need.  Below are some examples of what you need. 

 

Tube Sleve:  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220634-2b/overview/

 

Tube nut:  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220633-2b/overview/

 

If the 3/8" steel fuel line has the standard 45 degree end with a nut on it and you want to leave it, you need an inverted flare to AN adapter.  5/8"-18 inverted flare to 6 AN:  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-640610/overview/

 

Some flaring tools:  http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/flaring-tools/flare-degree/37-degree?N=4294638575%2B4294856197&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&tw=flaring%20too&sw=Flaring%20Tools

 

det0326 mentioned he used 37 degree hydraulic fittings.  Those are AN fittings.  So if you have a local shop that makes hydraulic hoses they should have a selection of steel and possibly stainless steel fittings.  I found stainless steel fittings at a local auto parts store that makes hydraulic hoses and used those on a steel tube instead of aluminum fittings.  I don't know if that was needed, it was just my preference.

 

When I started working with AN fittings for my fuel line it was confusing.  I used Summit's, Earl's, and Russel's (Edelbrock) web sites to find what I needed.  It wasn't easy.

 

Hope this helps clear up some confusion.

That little nugget of information is exactly what us neophytes needed, it's the Rosetta Stone. Thanks very much!!

[prayers1 153]

1969_Mach1, I really appreciate that information, Thanks!

 

I've made a similar set up using the Mustangs metal fuel line and a 3/8 metal braided hose to 6an fitting. I didn't know if that type of fitting could hold the pressure of EFI. I did learn today that the flaring tool that I used, was a Rigid 345 which only makes 45* flares and that I need a 37* flaring tool.

 

In regards to the 6an fittings, is there any advantage using aluminum, steel or SS. I would think steel would rust over time.

[det0326 179]

I think we all appreciate the pictures but if I may make a suggestion it would help if you could identify where and what each shows. Thanks

Mach1 i actually tried to put a label or caption on the pictures but for the life of me I don't know how. Basically what I did was put a bulkhead 90* fitting in front of the tank through the floor shown in the pic of trunk area (I have the tank inc tank but haven't installed it yet) from there I went over to the passenger side frame rail up to the tranny cross member   then 90* over to the tranny and up the fire wall behind the engine. This may not be a good rout for anyone that doesn't have sub frame connectors tho. 

 

 

 

 

Prayers  here's a link to a place I got some of my fittings.  http://www.hydraulicsdirect.com/37_degree_JIC_fittings_adapter_s/1874.htm

 

Yes as 1969_mach1 said they are the same as AN fittings as for as I can tell. A  -6 AN fitting is the same as a 3/8" fitting. -8 same as 1/2' and so on. As a matter of fact the red filter was listed as having -6 AN male fittings and that is jic 37* 3/8' nuts screwed to it.

 

 

Dave

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Mach1 i actually tried to put a label or caption on the pictures but for the life of me I don't know how. 

Dave

 

Yes the software for this site can be frustrating when you are trying to copy, paste, an attach stuff. So from your description I think I've got the jist of what we are looking at. Please tell me if I am wrong:

Pic1: passenger side next to trans? Is that an AOD?

Pic2: coming up firewall at back of intake. Why the quick-connects?

Pic3: fuel filter- what make?

Pic4: in front of passenger wheel?

Pic5: behind passenger wheel

Pic6: bulkhead connectors looking over differential

Pic7: same as 6 but viewed from passenger wheel

Pic8: over rear axle- nice disc brakes- whose?

Pic9: down passenger side with fuel filter

Pic10: bulkhead connectors from truck side?

 

I intend to use a Tanks Inc tank also so the bulkhead connectors appear to be a good solution to get the lines out of the trunk.

[prayers1 153]

Any suggestions for 3/8 steel tubing?

 

So, far I'm looking at Summits, Tubing, Stainless Steel, Natural, 3/8 in. x 20 ft., for $53.97.

OR

On eBay there is SILVER ZINC BRAKE/FUEL LINE STEEL TUBING COIL 3/8 OD X 25 FT Roll, $29.95.

 

I hear that the SS natural is tough to work with.  If the Silver Zinc is like what our fuel lines are like then I would want that.

 

What are your thoughts!!!!!

[det0326 179]

Yes the software for this site can be frustrating when you are trying to copy, paste, an attach stuff. So from your description I think I've got the jist of what we are looking at. Please tell me if I am wrong:

Pic1: passenger side next to trans? Is that an AOD?  yes passenger side and yes an AOD that I rebuild with 4R internals

Pic2: coming up firewall at back of intake. Why the quick-connects?  yes behind intake, Its just some barbs I put on there to connect the flex hose going to the TB there sorta long tho and I may change them later 

Pic3: fuel filter- what make? Just a cheap 10 micron I got off eBay   http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-CNC-ALUMINUM-WASHABLE-RACING-INLINE-FUEL-FILTER-8-AN8-8AN-RED-B-/251487049532?hash=item3a8dcbd73c:g:mwcAAOxyUgtTMyGR&vxp=mtr

Pic4: in front of passenger wheel? yes in front of rear passenger wheel

Pic5: behind passenger wheel yes behind rear passenger wheel

Pic6: bulkhead connectors looking over differential yes

Pic7: same as 6 but viewed from passenger wheel yes

Pic8: over rear axle- nice disc brakes- whose? yes      its a 8.8 explorer that has the pinion centered with OEM explorer discs

Pic9: down passenger side with fuel filter yes

Pic10: bulkhead connectors from truck side? yes

 

I intend to use a Tanks Inc tank also so the bulkhead connectors appear to be a good solution to get the lines out of the trunk.  I may have to put one more bulkhead through depending on how I decide to run the vent. 

[det0326 179]

Any suggestions for 3/8 steel tubing?

 

So, far I'm looking at Summits, Tubing, Stainless Steel, Natural, 3/8 in. x 20 ft., for $53.97.

OR

On eBay there is SILVER ZINC BRAKE/FUEL LINE STEEL TUBING COIL 3/8 OD X 25 FT Roll, $29.95.

 

I hear that the SS natural is tough to work with.  If the Silver Zinc is like what our fuel lines are like then I would want that.

 

What are your thoughts!!!!!

Prayers the silver zinc one is what I used it is OK and is pretty easy to work with and if you have not cut that 45* flare off yet put the joint together and tighten it down really good you will be amazed at how well the nut and fitting will form that 37* joint. I would not recommend doing others but if this is the only one I would lock it down good and check it for leaks. I have did this on hydraulic pressures a couple of times in a pinch. Worked well. Now if it is SS I would not try it.

 

Also the tubing that I think you said buckeye used was the cupro nickel  this stuff is super easy to work with and withstand a lot of pressure also.  

 

Dave 

[prayers1 153]

I like the Silver Zine type, if that is the same material used on our fuel lines. I'm not gonna force fit the joint but rather buy the 37* flaring tool.

Yeah that stiff Buckeye used is rather expensive.

[1969_Mach1 333]

1969_Mach1, I really appreciate that information, Thanks!

 

I've made a similar set up using the Mustangs metal fuel line and a 3/8 metal braided hose to 6an fitting. I didn't know if that type of fitting could hold the pressure of EFI. I did learn today that the flaring tool that I used, was a Rigid 345 which only makes 45* flares and that I need a 37* flaring tool.

 

In regards to the 6an fittings, is there any advantage using aluminum, steel or SS. I would think steel would rust over time.

Honestly, I don't know how much pressure those barbed AN to hose fittings will hold.  THe hose slipping off is the main concern.  I think I would ask Earl's, or Russel's tech support to be certain.  For me, I would look into having any hose sections made with the ends you need, if there is a shop or store near you that makes hydraulic hoses.  They would look cleaner and neater than making them yourself.  Just ask if the hose they use is suitable for gasoline.

[det0326 179]

Honestly, I don't know how much pressure those barbed AN to hose fittings will hold.  THe hose slipping off is the main concern.  I think I would ask Earl's, or Russel's tech support to be certain.  For me, I would look into having any hose sections made with the ends you need, if there is a shop or store near you that makes hydraulic hoses.  They would look cleaner and neater than making them yourself.  Just ask if the hose they use is suitable for gasoline.

My thoughts exactly I put barbs at the engine bay end but after thinking about it I am going to have two hoses made up for mine as well that way if you ever have to remove it for some reason it would be a lot easier to take apart and put back.

 

Dave

[det0326 179]

Has anyone giving anymore thoughts to venting the fuel tank.  If the roll over vent that comes with the tank is utilized the only place i see that it could go would be in the wheel house and if mounted vertically as the instructions suggest it would be more to the center of the wheel house where the tire can literally cover it with dirt and debris.    No place on the frame rail would be as high or higher than the filler tube. So to me it looks as tho the vented cap is the only option.

 

Dave 

[prayers1 153]

Here's what Buckeyedemon is using:

"I have a vent that routes to a two way valve (has two different pressures to relieve and hold pressure) that's routed up to the frame rail (next to where the axle tube vents in the shock crossmember)."

 

http://www.newton-eq... TPV Series.pdf

[1969_Mach1 333]

I am not familiar, just asking.  Will the stock vented gas cap not work when using EFI?

[det0326 179]

thanks prayers   I like how it says it can be mounted in any direction. That should work. 

 

Dave

[prayers1 153]

Dave, Check out Buckeyedemons build.  You can type a subject in the search box such as "fuel lines" and it will bring you to post related to that.

There is a wealth of information from A-Z on Buckeyes pages.

 

Terry, I don't know if the vented cap will cause any problems and might be best to speak to someone at Tanks Inc.

There are a few guys on (vintagemustangforum) using the filler neck as a way to vent.  They take the metal section of the filler tube and install a barbed fitting.

[prayers1 153]

Dave- Where did you get your steel lines from.  Is it SS or zinc coated. About how many ft. did you use?

[det0326 179]

I used the zinc coated steel tubing I got off eBay. A manufacturer by the name of in line tube made it. I really like it for steel it is easy to work with. It came in a roll of 25' and 1 roll would have did both runs but I got 2 rolls because I need to run transmission lines later.  The way I routed my line is a little shorter than like the original line was run but I think you said you were going to utilize your old line and run a new one on the passenger side if this is correct one roll would be more than enough. The way I ran mine it took about 24' for both lines but I did waste some.

 

Dave

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Terry, I don't know if the vented cap will cause any problems and might be best to speak to someone at Tanks Inc.

There are a few guys on (vintagemustangforum) using the filler neck as a way to vent.  They take the metal section of the filler tube and install a barbed fitting.

 John, as you know, these cars come with vented caps and its my contention that we should go with non-vented caps and instead vent the tank to atmosphere via the vent built into the Tanks Inc fuel pump collar. We have to allow air to come in when fuel goes out (or just the opposite if the fuel expands), and the easiest way should be out the barbed line at the pump. If your cable provider (I have Comcast) allows you to call up previous episodes of Bitchin Rides, go look at S1 Ep14 at around 28 minutes. The owner picks up his 69 Stang from Kindigit and there's a shot from the back as he pulls away under heavy acceleration...and gas comes out from around the cap. My car has the original paint and is discolored in the area below the cap. Some of it may be from this but I'm sure most is done when filling the dang thing. I'm just trying to alleviate all the fuel spillage that I can. I'm going to add a baffle or two inside the filler neck also. 

I'm not yet convinced that the Newton TPV two way valve is the way to go. I've emailed them a couple of questions about the installation and rollovers. I'll let you all know.

 

not my attached thumbnail

[1969_Mach1 333]

Gas leaking out the vented cap on hard acceleration is a simple reason but makes very good sense

 

Thanks,

Mike.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

I got a quick reply on the Newton TPV two way valve and it looks like a winner, however I can't get the picture to copy here so I'll include an attachment:

 

From Newton:

For your information, the TPV Vent Valve is always 'closed'.

When the fuel tank builds up to have over 50mbar pressure (note 1), the TPV Valve will momentarily open to relieve the excess pressure.

When the fuel is being pumped from the tank to fuel rail, if the fuel tank creates a vacuum, then the TPV will open up at 5mbar (note 2) allowing air into the fuel tank.

The TPV can be positioned lower than the fuel inlet hose, but you will need to connect a hose onto the outlet end of the TPV and run this up as high as possible, along the roll cage (or inner roof of the car) and then terminate the hose outside of the car (usually within a wheel arch), but lower than the fuel tank (I have sketched something below to assist)

In the event of a rollover, the TPV should seal off, but just in case of an unexpected failure, having a hose lower than the fuel tank will ensure no fuel spillage.

 

Note 1: 50mbar = .725psi, or 20.088 in H2O 

Note 2: 5mbar= .0725 psi or 2.008 in H2O

This is a pretty small number, for reference I included "inches H2O" which is how the natural gas coming into your house is commonly measured. Your gas range is usually around 5 in H2O. This pressure is so small you could seal up a leak with regular old masking tape if needed (not recommended).

A TanksInc tank is 9.75" deep so in a rollover the pressure a full tank of fuel would exert on the valve would be .260psi in the unlikely event the tank were level. Anyway it doesn't pop open until .725psi so this looks good. Position the valve above the filler neck so it doesn't normally get fuel in it and then do a big loop in the hose up to the top of one of the rear roof pillars and back down to the bottom of the wheel well. Not being all that familiar with the structure of the car does this sound doable?

Newton TPV valve.doc

[prayers1 153]

Here's what Buckeye did.

 

"I have a vent that routes to a two way valve (has two different pressures to relieve and hold pressure) that's routed up to the frame rail (next to where the axle tube vents in the shock crossmember).

[det0326 179]

Just ordered the TPV6 vent valve (sure is pricey) hope it works for our application that we want to use it for. 

[det0326 179]

Just ordered the pump from tanks inc. Got the GPA 4 . I wonder if it needs a regulator before the throttle body, I know the FiTech has a 58 PSI regulator build in but don't know if it needs a primary regulator or not.  I sure am spending a lot of money on a fuel delivery system and don't even have the TBI yet.

 

Dave 

[prayers1 153]

Dave, Buckeyedemon shared this link that gave him the ideal of the TFP.

 

https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2008/04/InTankFuelPumpPart2/index2.php

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Just ordered the pump from tanks inc. Got the GPA 4 . I wonder if it needs a regulator before the throttle body, I know the FiTech has a 58 PSI regulator build in but don't know if it needs a primary regulator or not.  I sure am spending a lot of money on a fuel delivery system and don't even have the TBI yet.

 

Dave

 Dave, the FiTech instructions on page 3 show an external pump (they don't show an in-tank pump), but all they show is the pump and a post fuel filter; then the line goes right into the EFI. 

 

not my thumbnails