EFI install options

[fordguy69 24]

I see that the FiTech allows a CDI Box with timing control. 

 

Does anyone know the Pros and Cons of using a CDI w/ Timing Control?

FiTech's instruction manual clearly shows when using the CDI you must use the CDI box tach wire for the tach input to the FiTech system.

 

When I spoke to FiTech about the CDI, they said that if you are using nitrous, boost or exceptionally high compression ratios to use a box to get the increased spark intensity.  Otherwise the FiTech system makes more than adequate spark without the box.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

In my experiences with automotive performance parts tech support, its common to get different answers from different tech support personnel within the same company.  You almost have to call several times then go with the information provided by most of the tech's.

That's true and it doesn't surprise me anymore. I had a discussion with my doctor once about the competency of the medical profession, and he told me that only 25% of any profession is competent at what they do. So you can be better than 3 out of 4 people just by being competent. Our problem is finding the 1 in 4 that know what they are doing.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

I have been reading about using the inertia switch from a 90's mustang, that's what I'm planning. Does it serve as a roll over switch also?

Since a bumpy road could set-off the inertia switch, I would say that yes a roll-over would certainly do the same. Its also good to note that according to FiTech when in a roll over the the engine would stop running and the EFI would also turn off the fuel. They stress it's not a replacement for an inertia switch though. 

  Here's is what I intend to do:

1. Run the Orange wire from the EFI to Ford inertia switch XF3Z9341-AA. Mount the switch vertically with the button up. It has 3 terminals Com, NC, and NO. Push the button IN and use an ohmmeter to find the two terminals with continuity and connect to those. 

2. Of the six OEM fuel pumps I checked, none of them used more than 7.2A. Only one was a Ford and it was a 89 Tempo with 5.19A. The point being that the Tanks Inc. GPA-4 pump that I intend to use will draw 10.4A at 60psi with a 17A inrush. This could damage the inertia switch but we have no way to tell because Ford won't share their design data. It's better to be safe than sorry so spend $7.29 for a Novita RL44 40A SPST relay. You can get it at Auto Zone.

3. Connect the Orange wire from the EFI to Com on the inertia switch, and then another wire to the terminal with continuity. Run that wire to the relay terminal 86. Connect relay terminal 85 to chassis.

4. The same wire that goes to the inertia switch Com should also go to relay terminal 30.

5. Relay terminal 87 goes to the pump positive, then the other pump wire goes to chassis.

6. There is no need for a fuse, the EFI already has two; the one on the Red battery wire has a 25A fuse and the White wire has a 5-7A fuse. There is more about the white wire in a bit.

7. Use 14ga wire for the pump.

8. We need to connect to the ignition switch "run or on" circuit. I asked fellow member MidLife who has a harness business where the easiest place to grab this circuit is. If you look at the voltage regulator (below the starter solenoid), it has a plug with 4 wires. The second wire down is #904 on the wire diagram and is green with a red stripe. Randy says that about 25% of the harnesses he sees have a 3" wire also connected to wire 904 right there at the plug to the regulator. On my car nothing is connected to the female bullet plug on the end of this 3" wire. It looks like it would take a .176 male bullet terminal, but after inspecting the female plug that has been unused for 46 years I've decided to cut the bullet plug off and solder directly onto the wire. The White wire from the EFI goes here.

[prayers1 153]

Thanks fordguy69, my CR is 10.5, so I guess I won't be needing a CDI.  I have my sights on a MSD Dizzy #8577 and the Rotor Phasing #84211 and maybe the coil #8207.

They said the #8577 is a little taller, at 8 3/4" from Intake to top of coil terminal. I need to measure to see if the Shaker air cleaner will fit.

[1969_Mach1 333]

Sorry in advance for this post.  But this still isn't clear and it seems nobody interested in an FiTech system has inquired about this.  Has anybody questioned what FiTech's timing control does?  It seems people are using it with distributors that have a mechanical advance and sometimes also a vacuum advance.  Doesn't make any sense.  How can both operate together and work very well?  From reading Mach 1 Driver's post, FiTech's tech support suggested using a Pertronix system.  So again, Pertronix in a stock distributor still maintains the mechanical and vacuum advance.

 

Every OEM EFI car I work on that has a distributor, the distributor has NO mechanical or vacuum advance and the computer completely controls the timing curves.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Sorry in advance for this post.  But this still isn't clear and it seems nobody interested in an FiTech system has inquired about this.  Has anybody questioned what FiTech's timing control does?  It seems people are using it with distributors that have a mechanical advance and sometimes also a vacuum advance.  Doesn't make any sense.  How can both operate together and work very well?  From reading Mach 1 Driver's post, FiTech's tech support suggested using a Pertronix system.  So again, Pertronix in a stock distributor still maintains the mechanical and vacuum advance.

 

Every OEM EFI car I work on that has a distributor, the distributor has NO mechanical or vacuum advance and the computer completely controls the timing curves.

You are correct. FiTechs instructions under Timing Control say the following: "The advance mechanism of the distributor used must be locked out. Settings are available for idle timing, as well as complete timing control using your Handheld Controller." I didn't mention it because it is in the instructions and I don't need timing control since I won't be using nitrous or boost.

[1969_Mach1 333]

Thanks for clearing that up Mach 1 Driver.  Throughout all these posts and threads that missing bit of information hasn't been mentioned.  I thought the members interested in an FITech system and wanting to use the timing control feature should be aware there may also be additional costs for a distributor that's capable of having the mechanical and vacuum advance locked out. 

[ronz75 10]

Thanks Mach 1 you saved me about an hour of thinking to wire the inertia switch and relay. For the white wire I intend to connect it to the wire I pulled my 12v signal for my carb choke, the pig tail would be a great option.

[ronz75 10]

So what about fuel filters, I see FiTech requires a 30 micron filter. What filter do others intend to run? I was looking at the filter they advertise but it seems small when compared to an OEM ford filter. I have thought about using say a filter from a 2000ish f150 (as that should last almost forever) right outside the tank then a smaller second filter closer to the motor. I feel like with the single aftermarket filter it will get clogged quicker.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

So what about fuel filters, I see FiTech requires a 30 micron filter. What filter do others intend to run? I was looking at the filter they advertise but it seems small when compared to an OEM ford filter. I have thought about using say a filter from a 2000ish f150 (as that should last almost forever) right outside the tank then a smaller second filter closer to the motor. I feel like with the single aftermarket filter it will get clogged quicker.

I found the 2000 F150 filter at Sumit- K&N PF-2200 for about $10, and that is a fat boy, but I couldn't find any specs on it. Anyone know what micron size this is? Sumit also has a female quick connect to 6an # 640853 for $13. That would go into the fuel rail or into the hose with an Earl's 80016 straight fitting for braided hose $9.00 at Jegs. Do I have this right?? 

[ronz75 10]

So from my looking a f150 OEM spec called for a 10 micron absolute a replacement from Advance is like $10. That's why I kinda like the idea, my heartburn now is deciding how to integrate it. Use the quick connects or use efi hose clamps for those two connection points. I can't decide.

[Rodman 11]

this is what worked for me a fram filter and russell filtting

 

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/Fram-Autolite/410/G3727/10002/-1?parentProductId=1568062

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/Russell/799/648060/10002/-1

[1969_Mach1 333]

I think I would use the micron rating FiTech suggests for a fuel filter.  For OEM, if my memory is correct, the filters are 100 micron before the fuel pump and 10 micron after the fuel pump.  The OEM 100 micron before the fuel pump is the screen attached to the in tank fuel pump.

 

If a filter with a smaller micron screen than FiTech suggests is installed, there might end up being an insufficient fuel flow issue.  I'd definitely look at the fuel requirements for your system and check the flow rate of the filter you are installing.  Ford Racing's Performance Parts catalog has a tech section with information on how to calculate the fuel requirement based on engine horsepower.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

I think I would use the micron rating FiTech suggests for a fuel filter.  For OEM, if my memory is correct, the filters are 100 micron before the fuel pump and 10 micron after the fuel pump.  The OEM 100 micron before the fuel pump is the screen attached to the in tank fuel pump.

 

If a filter with a smaller micron screen than FiTech suggests is installed, there might end up being an insufficient fuel flow issue.  I'd definitely look at the fuel requirements for your system and check the flow rate of the filter you are installing.  Ford Racing's Performance Parts catalog has a tech section with information on how to calculate the fuel requirement based on engine horsepower.

Great tip, here's the link: https://fordperformanceracingparts.com/download/tipsPDF/EFI_TechTips.pdf

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Concerning post pump fuel filters- Aeromotive has tech bulletins 101 and 102 (which are really commercials) but recommend 10 micron filters with 60 in2 or more of surface area. 

#027-12301 is 10 micron, will flow 2000 lb/hr, 332gal/hr, 1257 L/hr when using a AN-10 fitting with less than 1 psi drop. That is reportedly enough for 3000 hp. There are fittings to go down to AN-06. The filter is 5.5" long and 2" in diameter. The 12301 costs $96 and the filter replacement 12601 is $15. This is for gas with less than 10% ethanol.

For 0-15% ethanol use 12340 for $131 and replacement 12650 is $38.

[cavboy78 28]

I typed this up a few days ago, but forgot to post.  A couple of questions/thoughts as I plan the EFI install...

 

- First, has anyone used or considered glenns performance tanks? This looks like an affordable option that does two things that i want...an in tank pump, and it keeps the fuel lines outside the trunk area, which is a plus for me because the battery will be going back there (spark and fuel together anywhere, but the combustion chamber, is never a good thing)

 

- Second, is there any reason why I can't just buy a hard line fuel kit form CJPP (or wherever) and run that along the existing fuel line?  I know some minor routing changes would be required at the ends with some PFTE, but it seems cost effective and safe. I'm just not sure if there is some reasoning behind running the return line on the opposite side of the delivery line...

[bryonbush 85]

unless I missed the part where it says the pumps are included, $400 for just the tank is pretty high. as for the hard line, i dont see why that would be a problem. running the return line on the passenger side for me is just for simplicity. feed line is on the driver side. return off the EFI unit is on the passenger. its a straight shot to the firewall then down the passenger side then to the drain plug which is on the passenger side as well. easiest way of doing it.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Over the weekend I saw S4 EP7 of Car Fix. They were moving a fuel tank from the cab of a F100 to the rear. They used a 69 Mustang tank that came with an EFI pump and sender. It was from AutoZone, and is a Spectra Premium Fuel Tank. It is a new item that neither the retailer nor the manufacturer had complete specs on, but after a phone call and two emails they were able to answer my questions.

 

1. It looks promising with one caveat: has anyone seen or used an EFI pump with a butt flare- you know a hose barb? The supply line is 3/8 and the return is 5/16. I suppose we could cut-off the barb on the supply side and use a AN fitting that comes with a nut and ferrule (these are available).

2. The Tank:

   a. It appears to be a standard size/shape 20 gal 69 Mustang tank, Spectra part number F28CFI for the entire assembly and costs $428.23 on Parts Geek- pump and wire plug included.

   b. The fuel pump/sender hole is in the front surface near the bottom, just like a stock tank, so the fuel lines and electrical are outside the trunk. 

   c. It has a drain

   d. It has a pan in the tank to prevent fuel pump starvation.

3. The Pump:  

   a. 55-85 psi. We need 58 so I assume we are in spec here.

   b. 58.6 gph. Using Ford Performance Racing Parts formulas this equates to 633.8 hp.

   c. 8.5 amp

   d. 3/8 supply line with hose barb

   e. 5/16 return line with hose barb

4. The sender:

   a. 75 ohms empty (Ford's spec is reportedly 73 ohms but this is within tolerance)

   b. 10 ohms full

5. Plug:

   It comes with a plug for all the electrical connections for pump and sender.

6. Spectra does not offer the pump separately at this time but say they will in the future.

 

Comments please.

[prayers1 153]

Here are a few tank options that I'm looking at besides the Spectra.

 

Aeromotive #18697- Summit price $690, free shipping no tax.
Mustang Stealth Fuel Tanks feature:
• P/N 18697 Stamped Steel Fuel Tank fits 1964-1968 Ford Mustangs
• Silver Metallic Painted finish
• EFI-style internal baffling
• 73-10 Ohm Universal Fuel Level Sending Unit
• Bolt-On Flanged Filler Neck Adapter
• 60 degree Universal Rubber Filler Neck
• Black Anodized Pump Hanger Assembly
• 340 Stealth Fuel Pump (P/N 11140)
• Pre-Pump Filter Sock Assembly
• (3) ORB-06 Ports - Outlet, Return and Vent

 

Tank Inc. Tank $235.00, Sending unit $35.00, Fuel Pump $210 = $480 w/o shipping cost.

 

• 1969-70 Mercury Cougar EFI Fuel Tank
• Based off of the size of the 1970 Mustang and Cougar gas tank
• Fuel Injection Ready!
• Uses our GPA series fuel pumps, available in 5 sizes.
• Uses aftermarket 5-bolt senders.  Multiple Ohm ranges available to work with factory or aftermarket gauges.
• EFI style internal baffling.  Extra Large 4.3 liter internal fuel tray to prevent fuel pump starvation. 
• Perfect for your Pro-Touring, Autocross or Road Racing Ride
• Coated galvanized steel.
• 22 Gallon Capacity
• Size is: 32-5/8" x 24-1/2" x 9-3/4"

[prayers1 153]

Here's some info to read before buying an EFI

 

http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/threads/before-you-buy-any-self-learning-efi-system-please-read.25608/

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Return off the EFI unit is on the passenger. its a straight shot to the firewall then down the passenger side then to the drain plug which is on the passenger side as well. easiest way of doing it.

FYI, if our tanks are full and 8.5" deep, then at the bottom of the tank it is at 0.22 psi. That's what the EFI has to overcome to push the fuel into the bottom of the tank. I would guess that's OK, and maybe only 0.1 psi different than pumping it into the front at the sender, which is what I hope to do. 

[prayers1 153]

That's a very interesting point Mach1 Driver.  I don't have the figures but always thought it would be a bad ideal to run a return under pressure via tank drain or sending unit.  Besides, the tank drain plug is at it's lowest level exposing itself to road debris and the elements, even if you use a 45*.

 

IMO, go w/o and resistance such as the neck filler tube.

 

I'm on an EFI learning curve, so if using a return under resistance is OK, please advise why.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

That's a very interesting point Mach1 Driver.  I don't have the figures but always thought it would be a bad ideal to run a return under pressure via tank drain or sending unit.  Besides, the tank drain plug is at it's lowest level exposing itself to road debris and the elements, even if you use a 45*.

 

IMO, go w/o and resistance such as the neck filler tube.

 

I'm on an EFI learning curve, so if using a return under resistance is OK, please advise why.

Hmmmm, when I think about it as a "system", the EFI is about 23" or so higher than the bottom of the tank so even if the fuel leaves the EFI with no pressure the fuel in the return line should level out with the level in the tank- right? So if you are running down hill and the tank is higher than the EFI it exerts a small backward pressure on the EFI return. Surely after all these years of EFI they have taken this into account. Rrright?

 

I agree that I don't like the return exposed on the bottom of the tank.

[prayers1 153]

Sorry my bad. I confused vent/return lines.

 

My choice is:

Vent to filler tube

Return via the one on either the Aeromotive or Tanks Inc fuel pumps.

 

Still against the thought of using the drain as a return.

[ronz75 10]

Mach 1, I looked into the Spectra tank you mentioned. I found some photos of the inside pan and it just seemed like it wasn't a good solution. I also found a post somewhere that experienced fuel supply problems when lower amounts of fuel were in the tank, their solution was to fill up at half tank. For these reasons I am looking into either Tanks inc or Glenn's Performance since I have only read and heard good things about both of those set ups.