Rustang's 69 Fastback

[Rustang 11]

Hi everybody, Rustang here, I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster.

 

And after many years, today I'm finally able to accomplish my goal of starting my 1969 Fastback Mustang... ...build thread.

 

 

I have wanted to build one of these since I was a teenager, and now here I am (an undisclosed number of years later), and I've finally got one. This is my newly-purchased base-model 69 fastback. It was last registered in the mid 80's, and has spent most of the decades since then sitting in the desert.

 

 

 

 

It's got a 302, C4, an open rear diff (which I haven't tried to identify yet), 4 wheel manual drums, and power steering. I don't know if it's the original engine or not, but I suspect it is not. As you would expect for a car that has been sitting for probably 30+ years, it does not run. The tranny leaks, and the brakes do absolutely nothing at all. There is no fluid in the power steering unit, but the car does roll, and it does steer.

 

 

 

The interior looks pretty good, but at least some of it is repro. It has new carpets, some chrome trim, and probably a new headliner. But other than a few trim pieces, cracked dash, and some upholstery tears, the interior is basically fine.

 

 

 

Structurally, it seems fairly sound, by which I mean that the framerails, torque boxes, a-pillars, rocker panels, etc, all look good to me (but I'm no expert). There's no rust-through in any these areas, and I can't see any cracks or obvious significant damage. I've never actually seen shock-tower cracks before, so I don't really know what to look for, but I don't see anything wrong with them.

 

 

It has definitely been hit at least once, with a dented and bondo'ed left quarter, and some ripples on that sail panel.  The car hasn't been driven, and the paint still matches perfectly, so I assume this was done back in the day. There's a few dings on the front end as well, but that looks like the extent of it that I can see. However, I'm fully expecting more surprises as I take it down to bare metal.

 

 

It has some rust damage in the usual spots, but not especially bad. The battery tray and fender apron are rusted through (but the frame rail looks OK). There's also a few holes in the floor, both door panels, and the trunk lid. I don't know if the cowl leaks or not. There is at least some sort of damage to most of the exterior body panels, either rust, dents, dings, or deep scratches, but at this point I plan/hope to salvage at least 75% of the sheet metal.

 

And that's pretty much where I'm at to start this project. My build concept is quite ambitious, with engine, tranny, and brake swaps, and probably some suspension upgrades as well, but I'll go into that in later posts.

 

For now, I just wanted to introduce myself and my car, get this thread started, and say "Hi" to everybody.

 

So... Hi everybody!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tgriffin91 27]

Welcome! Looks like you have an all there car. I made the mistake of buying mine after a lot of it had been disassembled. Putting things back together is so much harder not knowing where it came from that being said, pictures will be your best friend. Label your bolts in bags too. Even if you buy new ones it is nice to have something to compare it to.

[SWPruett 83]

Welcome!  It sure looks like you have a lot to work with in that 'ol girl!  There are lots of folks on this board who would have killed to start with a tub that solid (I'm one of 'em!).  Keep the pics coming and share your progress!  We like pictures!

[RPM 1,190]

Hi back at you. Welcome to the forum Rustang! X2 on the complete car to start with, taking pics and labeling parts. Where abouts do you call home? You can put your city or geographical area in the location space on your profile page. I'm still trying to figure out the bear logo in your avitar.

[Rustang 11]

Thanks for the kind welcome.

 

And I'm glad to hear that we're all in favor of photos, labels, and documentation. I've already got enough photos to choke a donkey, and will have little shame about flooding this place with them. I've been shooting a bit of video on my phone too, I might put those on youtube or Facebook and link them.

 

These days I hang my hat in Little Rock, Arkansas. The car came out of Texas. But I'm originally from Canada, and the bear logo in my avatar is the hockey team I used to play for back when I still had knees.

 

And getting a complete car was no accident. When I was looking for a car, people would ask me what I'm looking to spend, and I would say things like "Maybe $10k, but I definitely can't afford anything less than $5k".  Most people would give me a funny look, but the car guys would just nod. Overall I'm pretty happy with the condition of the car from what I've seen so far.

 

Anyways, I'll be back soon with some progress reports.

[Rustang 11]

Like I said before, I'm looking to do a fairly ambitious build. But my immediate plan is to get it moving under its own power again first, in more or less its current configuration. Basically, I want to get it running as quickly and cheaply as possible, so I can drive it around while I build up the new powertrain. And that means fixing up the systems that are currently in the car.

 

As I said, when you press the brake pedal now, absolutely nothing happens. Same with the parking brake.

 

The master cylinder was one big solid ball of rust, and I couldn't get it open on the car, so I made moves to replace it. And once I saw how cheap replacement drum brake hardware is, I decided to replace pretty much the entire brake system.

 

 

I just got a new master cylinder and some pre-bent brake lines in the mail, and locally sourced some wheel cylinders, brake shoes, and brake hardware kits.

 

ALL of the brake fittings put up a serious fight coming off, and all but one of them were completely destroyed coming out. I had planned on replacing the hard lines anyways, but I like to try to save hardware and reuse it wherever possible. Well, not here.

 

About the only thing it looks like I'll be keeping is the distribution block, which I managed to free up without doing any obvious damage. It still had pretty clean-looking brake fluid in it so it shouldn't be dried out, and everything I can see inside it still looks good, so I'm at least going to put it back in and give it a try.

 

 

I also took one of the drums apart to see how it looked inside, and make sure my hardware kit fits and has what I need. Everything looked alright in there. I don't know that I absolutely need new wheel cylinders, but they were like $12 or something, which I figure is pretty cheap insurance.

 

The outer wheel bearing was bit messed up on this wheel. It doesn't really show up in any of the pictures, but it's definitely a bit oblong. One of the local auto parts stores has those in stock for about $10 each, so I figure I may as well throw in new bearings all the way around too, as long as I'm going to be yanking things off the spindles.

 

More to follow as time allows...

 

[Footcutter11 23]

• Welcome!  Looks like you got a real good start there!

[Rustang 11]

So the transmission has a C6AP casting number on the servo cover (it's an "A" servo), which the internet tells me is a 1966:

 

First Position (Decade)
C = 1960 - 1969
D = 1970 - 1979
E = 1980 - 1989
F = 1990 - 1999

Second Position (Year of Decade)

Third Position (Car Line)
A=Ford
D=Falcon
G=Comet, Montego, Cyclone
J=Marine and Industrial
K=Edsel
M=Mercury
O=Fairlane, Torino
S=Thunderbird
T=Ford Truck
V=Lincoln
W=Cougar
Z=Mustang

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

So I presume that means it's not the original transmission, and that it came out of a Galaxy(?) or some other Ford passenger car?

 

I have a replacement C4 (a C6DP casting with a "W" servo), which according to the guy I bought it from on Craigslist is more or less ready to go. If not, I'll just get a rebuild kit and hope to mix-and-match a working transmission between two cores and a rebuild kit.

 

As I said, for now I just want to get the vehicle moving under its own power as cheap as possible, because I don't intend to keep this powertrain for more than a year or so anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

I can't read the tag on the rear end, but the casting numbers are pretty clear.  Looks like a:

 

 C6OWA (something) 8K2 

 

I guess it's out of a 66 Fairlane or Torino? Otherwise, I have no idea (don't really know much about rear ends). Then there's another one that reads something like:

 

6(T?)OW 4025A

 

 

 

 

I've also got some Keystone wheels. I don't know anything about wheels. They're 3-piece units, with some casting marks inside. One of them looks like i says "Kustom", and there  are a few others that are fairly hard to make out (I can actually see them better with the camera than I can in person, funny enough).

 

 

 

Fuel pumps. New and old. I'm actually considering re-using the original gas line here, because it looks like its in good shape.

 

 

 

Carbs, old and new. The old one is seized solid. I soaked it in PB blaster and Marvel Miracle Oil overnight, and literally nothing moved the next morning. The replacement is a Motorcraft unit, 2bbl, don't know much else about it.

 

 

 

 

So, questions for our esteemed members:

 

1) What is a "W" code intermediate band servo? I've been able to find stuff about A, R, H, etc, the common ones. But a quick internet search cant find me anything about a "W" servo.

 

 

2) Anybody able to tell me anything about this rear end? Ratio or gear diameter?

 

 

3) Anyone know anything about these wheels? They look vintage, I'd say they're period correct (ie late 60s early 70s), but dont know much else. I might keep them for authenticity reasons, and because they look decent. Any reason not to keep them? Are they worth anything?

 

 

That's probably enough to keep the 1969stang.com braintrust busy for a few hours. I'll be back with more questions soon enough.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

[Footcutter11 23]

_{The tag on the rear should tell you what it is.  A good pic from far enough away to see the third member will tell if it is a 9inch or 8inch  (8 inch looks squarish).}

[Rustang 11]

Another day of sitting listlessly at work, waiting for the opportunity to peel off some knuckle flesh inside the engine bay of a bad*** old muscle car.

 

So I finally got the old power steering pump off. I had kind of moved it out of the way before, because I couldn't get the lines off of it. Finally bit the bullet, and spent a good chunk of the evening taking it out.

 

 

It's bone dry inside, so I'm assuming any seals in there are probably cracked. I've never opened a power steering pump before, and I don't know how well they age. Not sure if I'll buy a new set of seals and try to rebuild it, or just throw some new fluid in it, let it soak for a while, and then see how it does.

 

Next up I got the new fuel pump and new brake master cylinder put in.

 

 

Haven't plumbed either of these yet.

 

So with this in mind, I started moving back through the fuel delivery system. I pulled the tank, and got a number of surprises. For starters, I tried to undo the soft line between the fuel tank sending unit and the hard fuel line. I undid the hose clamps, and went to give the rubber hose a bit of a twist to try to break it loose. I was careful, because I knew there was a chance the hose would break. Instead, the hard lines were so rusted that the male end of the fuel tank sending unit, and the hard fuel line, BOTH broke off inside the rubber hose. That was a new one for me.

 

 

A quick look inside the tank showed that the corrosion wasn't limited to the lines, and in fact it looks like this tank is toast.

 

It is just chock full of rust and grit and crap. Far more than I could ever possibly hope to remove through chemical means. On the flip side, if anyone is looking for some NOS gasoline, I've got about a quarter gallon of the stuff in 'fair' condition...

 

So it looks like a new tank and some new lines are in my immediate future.

 

As for the rear diff, I stuck a wire wheel in a cordless drill, and went at the take a bit today. Actually worked pretty well. Looks like I've got a WCZ code 8-inch with 2.79 gears, which according to the door plate is the correct rear end for the car.

 

 

 

 

[Footcutter11 23]

Wow, not sure you will get takers on the NOS fuel...

[Rustang 11]

SHE RUNS!!!!!

 

I managed to catch the event on video (after 2 or 3 or maybe 6 false starts), but the file is too big to upload here.

 

Regardless, I'm super pleased with myself right now.

 

I've managed to piss off the wife and the rest of the neighborhood by cranking over and firing up an old and cantankerous open-header V8 at 11pm, so I'm just going to spend the rest of the night drinking beers and watching cartoons.

 

Seriously. So happy.

[70Nightmare 20]

Nice project u got going.

[RPM 1,190]

Ah, the wife and neighbors will get over, or used to the sweet noise :)

[Rsmach1 71]

Nice! I can't wait to get mine done and the engine back in. My neighbor's and I don't get along so think I'll light mine off with open headers at 6am on a Sunday :)

[Rustang 11]

This past week I've been plumbing brake lines, adjusting throttle springs, fixing wiring, etc. Details that don't make good updates. As I said, I'm just trying to get it to run so I can drive a bit while I gather up the stuff I need for the proper build.

 

So I figure now is probably as good a time as any to talk about what I'm planning to do with the car.

 

Basically, the build concept is that I want something like a modern pro-touring car. But unlike the cars in the magazines, I don't want a modern car with old sheet metal (except most of the sheet metal is actually dynacorn). I want vintage metal. I want a bad*** old muscle car, and when you look under the skin, it's still a bad*** old muscle car right to the bone. I don't care if the parts on the car are original, or correct (or even Ford), but I do want pretty much all the parts to be period-correct 1960s and early 70's vintage hardware. Modern tires are about the only major compromise I'm willing to make.

 

For an engine, I'm leaning towards a 351W block, with closed-chamber Cleveland heads, and in the region of 377-393ci displacement. Sticking with vintage hardware means I'll have to make an old-school stroker by mashing together OEM parts. Probably offset grind a 400M crank, along with Chrysler inline-6 rods. The final details will depend on what kind of vintage pistons I can find, and the preferences/experience of whoever I get to do the machine work. But I'd like to put it together which as much vintage metal as possible.

 

For gears, I think I'll go with a rear ratio around 3.00-3.25 and a 4 speed top-loader. I want highway gears so I can drive it around like a real car, and I'll let the Cleveland stroker engine worry about keeping the ET's down.

 

I'll likely keep the solid axle and leaf springs, but upgrade to a 9-inch, LSD, Watt's link, and traction bars. The Jaguar IRS swap is period-correct, and would probably perform better overall, but I'm just not sure that it fits in with the overall "feel" that I'm going for. Plus it's a ton of work.  A Mustang II front end isn't completely out of the question (as long as I can get an actual early Mustang II front end, not a kit), but I'm not 100% convinced that it'll benefit my application. I'm not putting in a big block, so clearance won't be an unsurmountable problem, and handling-wise I don't know if a Mustang II is *actually* much better than a well-configured shock tower system (ie Shelby drop, Monte Carlo bar, roller spring perches, big-block control arms, etc, etc).  However, I've never driven an old mustang with either a Mustang II front end, or a well set-up shock tower system, so I am very open to any input from anyone who has.

 

Otherwise, I'll keep the interior mostly stock. I will compromise my period-correctness for things like insulation, seat belts, and probably some newer front seats. Structurally, I'll give it sub-frame connectors, but I think I'll wait to see how fast it is before I put in a roll cage. There's a wrecked Torino and a '73 Ranger in the scrapyard near here, and my plan is to chop those guys up for hardware, patch panels and donor metal, so I can keep as much vintage metal as possible.

 

And that's pretty much what I'm looking to do.

 

It won't be cheap. Or quick. Starting with a running and driving car from Texas, I'm still planning to sink at least another solid $20k before it even makes it to a paint shop. And that's doing everything except the machine work myself.

 

But it'll be bad***.

 

Eventually.

[Rustang 11]

So I've run the engine a few times (for about 5 mins of total run-time), it's on its 3rd oil change, I ran 2 bottles of Marvel Miracle Oil though it, and the oil is a decent color. 

 

However:

 

1) It sounds... bad. I've mostly worked on imports and airplanes, so I don't have a fine-tuned ear for a Ford 302. But this engine doesn't sound right to me.

 

2) It doesn't want to cold start. I've had to use starting fluid (ether) to get it running each time. I can shut it down and start it up again fine, but when I leave it overnight, I have to hit it with the starter fluid again.

 

3) It stalls if I give it too much throttle. It stalls if i punch it, and it stalled the only time I tried to rev it above about 3-4000 rpm. I'm still trying to be gentle with it, so I haven't repeated either of these.

 

4) There are a few sparks coming out the left cylinder bank. I'm assuming (hoping) that this is just carbon or dust or some junk burning off. But I am by no means certain of that, and especially given that the engine sounds kinda bad.

 

I haven't checked the distributor, or the vacuum, so some of this might be traced to those factors. Hopefully I'll find out soon enough, and will keep everyone posted.

[Rustang 11]

Also, I think the replacement Autolite 2100 I've got came from a manual car, because there's nowhere for me to hook up the C4 kickdown rod.

 

Dangit.

[Rustang 11]

I was digging around in a local scrap yard, and found a power steering pump out of a '73 F-150 that looked pretty much the same as mine. Its still got fluid in it, so I figured I'd grab it.

 

 

I've still got the old pump, and I'll try to rebuild it, but at least now I've got one that might be a parts donor.

 

I've also been keeping everything I take off the car. Every time I buy a replacement part, the original which came off the car goes right into the box the new one came in. Parts, mounting hardware, hoses, everything.  I plan to keep literally everything... just in case.

 

 

I've been playing with the transmission a bit, and I think the parking pawl in the C4 is gone. Otherwise it seems to function alright. However, it's got little bits of junk in the fluid, so leaving it as-is isn't really an option. So I'll leave it in the car for now, while I do a bench rebuild of THIS guy:

 

 

It's another C4 I picked up on craigslist. Don't know if it's any good, but I've ordered a rebuild kit, and with the existing C4 as a donor I should be able to put together a solid tranny.

 

Oh, and I got to use my favorite tool today:

 

 

Lockwire pliers.  I used to be an airplane mechanic in a past life, and we lockwire all sorts of stuff. My use of lockwire in this case was completely inappropriate (I wrapped it around a linkage shaft in the shifter lieu of a washer to firm up the linkage while testing the tranny), but iI love using these things. Something very satisfying about them.

 

 

[RPM 1,190]

Good find at the scrapyard. I love those safety wire pliers! I bought a pair about a hundred years ago when I raced karts. Now I use them when hanging parts to dip, paint or just hang. Once in a while I'll use them for their intended purpose :)

[Footcutter11 23]

I think you are on the right track for a rough running engine.

[shaun071 62]

Lock wiring can be satisfying or a special hell. Lol.

[Rustang 11]

Well, I know the C4 tranny that I've currently got in my car has some problems (broken parking pawl, and black flakes in the fluid), so I bought a donor tranny. 

 

The intention was to either rebuild the donor and just swap it into the car, or use it for parts to rebuild the one that's already on the car.

 

I've got the donor up on the bench, and I've got it open, and... well... I think I'll be using this one for parts.

 

First, let's play guess the year of the transmission:

 

It's a case fill. The tail housing has the external vacuum relief valve which I believe is supposed to be a 1971 and later feature. The intermediate band servo cover says 1966, the assembly tag says 1970, and the pump face says 1964.

 

 

 

 

 

My guess is 1970, but I'm thinking this transmission has some history.

 

Supported by the fact that when I pulled the torque converter and hosed it down a little, it looks like the previous torque converter exploded inside the bellhousing. There are a lot of scrapes and dings, and although it's not easy to see, some of these impacts go clean through the bellhousing. 

 

 

I'm not that excited about it, just interesting.

 

The next game we'll play is "Identify the stuff found in the pan." This game is actually pretty fun, when you have a spare tranny and a rebuild kit.

 

So far we've got:

 

A dowel pin (I actually don't yet know where this came from):

 

A shredded bit of aluminum:

 

A shipping plug:

 

And some water and what looks like oil contamination:

 

 

So now I'm digging into the guts of this thing, and it actually doesn't look too bad inside on first inspection. The endplay measurements seem ok, and there's only a tiny bit of rust visible on initial inspection.

 

 

And that's more or less where I'm at, because the pump face is STUCK.

STUCK HARD.

 

I've been mashing, and malleting, and prying, and hitting it with the propane torch, and trying to get stuff down in the seams, and soaked it in Marvel Oil, and I've probably ruined the planetary and most of the thrust bearings by trying to pry this damn thing out, and no dice.

 

It doesn't budge. At all.

 

I've read stuff on the internet about cutting down into the lip of the casing, and I suppose that's probably my next step. But I'd rather not do that.

 

If anyone has any advice on how to get the pump off, I'm all ears. Otherwise I break out the hack saw.

[Footcutter11 23]

Not a big fan of the slush box...

[Rustang 11]

Not a big fan of the slush box...

Yeah, me neither.

 

It's not in the long-term plans. But fixing what's already in the car is the fastest way to get it back on the road, so I can drive it while I assemble the parts for the definitive rebuild.