Problems starting new engine in restoration project

[d&dmach1 1]

Have installed our new rebuilt 351 Cleveland back in our Mach 1.  Engine ran well in the shop when we picked it up.  Our car is still going through complete reassembly so things like things in the dash and much of the wiring harness is still awaiting to be connected.  Have plugged in the connections that should provide starting, including the automatic shifter harness, and engine turns but have no spark.  Have new voltage regulator and solenoid.

 Are there any connections that will prevent starting if not complete.  The instrument cluster is not in the car, nor any of the lights.  Not painting the car until I have it running & working.  Would appreciate any suggestions

[Mach1 Driver 560]

With a stock 69 coil and points system: run a wire directly from the battery + to the coil (disconnect the usual wire). The other side of the coil should go to the distributor as usual. This is what normally happens with the ignition in the start position. When the key is in the run position, power is routed through the ballast resistor (or sometimes a resistive wire) and then to the coil. If you run it for too long with a direct connection to the battery it will eat-up your points, but you can start it and run it for a little while with no problem. If that doesn't get you spark then your problem is either the coil or points.

To crank the engine you will need to go from battery + to the starter solenoid coil terminal. I usually do this with a remote hand held starter pushbutton switch so I can disengage the starter after the engine fires. The nice thing about using a remote starter switch is that you are standing right next to the engine and can goose the throttle or whatever needs to be done, and can check for leaks, etc.

These old pre-electronics cars are really simple electrically. All you need is the coil, points, the starter solenoid, and starter to get it running (and of course the plug wires). Literally everything else can be disconnected.

[69volunteer 84]

With a stock 69 coil and points system: run a wire directly from the battery + to the coil (disconnect the usual wire). The other side of the coil should go to the distributor as usual. This is what normally happens with the ignition in the start position. When the key is in the run position, power is routed through the ballast resistor (or sometimes a resistive wire) and then to the coil. If you run it for too long with a direct connection to the battery it will eat-up your points, but you can start it and run it for a little while with no problem. If that doesn't get you spark then your problem is either the coil or points.

To crank the engine you will need to go from battery + to the starter solenoid coil terminal. I usually do this with a remote hand held starter pushbutton switch so I can disengage the starter after the engine fires. The nice thing about using a remote starter switch is that you are standing right next to the engine and can goose the throttle or whatever needs to be done, and can check for leaks, etc.

These old pre-electronics cars are really simple electrically. All you need is the coil, points, the starter solenoid, and starter to get it running (and of course the plug wires). Literally everything else can be disconnected.

+1

 

I did something similar to drive onto trailer for body shop, around the block, etc.

 

I went to Napa and bought a $5 ignition switch and using a scrap metal panel, zip tied it and the switch to the gutted dash. I also had a spare temp gauge and oil pressure gauge that I cut holes in the metal panel for.

[JayEstes 172]

I would also suggest that if you have the wiring correct and new parts, that you ensure the engine block is grounded properly.  To my recollection there is a ground wire from the block to the firewall on the backside of the block on the passenger side.  If your engine is not getting spark, could be that you don't have a good connection back to ground.

What is the status of your distributor?  Did you put in a new rotor and ensure the cap has clean contacts?  Also what is the status of the alternator.  Are you sure it is working properly, hooked up properly?

 

Good luck.  Will watch for updates.

[jholmes217 65]

I've had those symptoms twice in the last three months.  First time, I fried my Petronix 2 by leaving the key on overnight while it was on a battery charger.  Second time, the coil went bad.

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

Also check the condenser ,they do go bad 

[JayEstes 172]

+1 on Ridge Runner's comment! (obviously applies to points & condenser distributors only).  I should have remembered that, as I am a poster child for bad condenser stories!  I have replaced one 4 times in the last year!  The new product coming out of most autoparts stores are very low quality.  The interesting thing is that these units will bench test ok.  If you try to measure capacitance, you will still get generally the right readings - even on a unit that won't work in the car.  Ask me how I know...  I found they would fix the starting problem and work for a few months (light daily driving) then suddenly, the same signature with extreme cutting out of the engine, then after 1 or 2 more starts, the car won't crank at all.

 

The signature can be anywhere from intermittent to very weak spark, to no spark. I use a timing light, and when I have this failure the timing light produces almost no flash or very weak or irregular flash.  If the condenser is failed, even with a good solenoid, and coil, the car won't get enough spark to run.  The condensers usually fail by shorting -intermittently- (hence the "its ok" benchtest) INSIDE to case.  It is invisible, but the short steals all the current you need to produce a hot spark.  Condensers can be stressed by "hot coils" with lower resistances.  They sell you these "hot coils" like they produce better spark, and they DO, until the stress from more current flowing fails your cheap, surely-china-made-piece-a-crap condenser.

 

Only way to really know is to replace the one you have.  I went to O'Reillys and bought a lifetime one for $6.  That way if it fails, which it might (it did for me), they will replace it free.  KEEP your old one.  If it's an original and not the problem, it is highly likely a better quality part than one you can buy these days.  

 

It's a cheap, 5min change, and it can be night an day.  Worth a shot if you've tried other ignition components and are still head-scratchin'

 

Good luck!

[d&dmach1 1]

Have just followed up on suggestions and determined it was a poor connection,  However I now have spark while trying to start engine.  It runs as long as you hold the key forward on start.  Once you let off on the key the engine stops.  This repeats itself every time we try to start the engine.  replaced the ignition switch with a nos I had and no change.  Any ideas?

[Wycked69 20]

Does your car have a Tach Cluster and under dash harness accordingly?

[d&dmach1 1]

no tach cluster.  most of the wiring is unplugged with the exception of the ignition system.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Trace the ign power wire form the ign switch to the bridge point where the wire from the sol connects. there is an open condition in that wire.

[d&dmach1 1]

To Mach1Rider, Thank you!  You're right on the money.  Found that the six pin plug on the ingnition switch to the wiring harness had one pin pop out of the plug body just far enough to miss contact, but not enough to see it was out. Very frustrating for such a simple fix.  My 17 yr old fired up the engine in the car for the first time in over 25 years.  The look on his face was worth every bit of effort & money poured into this 10 yr project. We have moved on and expect to paint the car in another month and be ready for next years calendar of events.  Thank to everyone who offered help

[barnett468 418]

as far as paint goes, i would use ppg solvent base.