Need ideals for an Electric Fuel Pump & location

[prayers1 153]

I want to change to an Electric Fuel pump on my 351 Cleveland. I've looked into the Aeromotive Brands and feel they are way too much in cost ($1117.00)

 

What are you guys using and where are you placing the pumps & filters.

 

What brand are you using?

 

What Electric power and off are you using.

 

Thnaks for all yiour help!

[RPM 1,278]

I may regret it, but I'm using a Mr Gasket in line model #12s. I believe it was just under $50. I mounted it just forward of the tank between the outlet tube and the frame rail. I pulled the power from the accessory post on the fuse box.

 

Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics :(

[Rsmach1 71]

I've had good luck with Holleys pumps, little noisy, red pump can be had for $115 at Summit. http://m.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-801-1

[sportsroof69 13]

It run an Aeromotive 11203. It gets its power from a relay panel I made that's attached to the battery, and I have it on a switch.

[prayers1 153]

Sportsroof69-

The Aeromotive pump looks like a good one. I have a few questions.

What is your fuel pressure at idle and wot?

Where on the car and how far from the sending unit (ANY Pictures)

What regulator are you using.

Where are you running your lines, all on the drivers side?

What size line 3/8 or 1/2"

Is it keyed on and off or just a switch.

 

If you can take a few pcitures that would be great.

 

If you like you can email me at prayers1@cox.net.

 

Thanks so much!

[RPM 1,278]

Um, I thought Prayers1 posted his pump cost $117! Doh!

[sportsroof69 13]

Sportsroof69-

The Aeromotive pump looks like a good one. I have a few questions.

What is your fuel pressure at idle and wot?

Where on the car and how far from the sending unit (ANY Pictures)

What regulator are you using.

Where are you running your lines, all on the drivers side?

What size line 3/8 or 1/2"

Is it keyed on and off or just a switch.

 

If you can take a few pcitures that would be great.

 

If you like you can email me at prayers1@cox.net.

 

Thanks so much!

I'm in a trip right now, so I'm not at home, but I think I'll be home Wednesday, so I can get some pics then.

 

I'm at about 7 psi all the time.....I hope. Lol. Fuel pressure gauge is under the hood on the regulator.

 

My pump is mounted right in front of my tank. Electric pumps don't like to pull fuel, so you want them close to the source.

 

I run a -10 line all the way from the tank, to the regulator, and then 2 -8 lines to the carb. One to each bowl. My line actually runs down the passenger side because that way I don't have to run the fuel line across the engine. It comes out towards the front of the inner fender, and into a magnafuel regulator block, that lets me attach two regulators. 1 for the carb, and one for nitrous.

 

I just run a cheap Holley 12-803 regulator

 

 

It's on a switch, and a relay. I did this because my car has a harness and I can't reach the key if I'm strapped in, and I need to be able to kill fuel and fire in case something happens at the track, so I can shit everything off. All switches are mounted in the console.

[1969_Mach1 335]

If you're taking the time to run a new fuel line you might to also include a return line and use a pressure regulator with a return line.

[BandBSTANGS 15]

Just another option, have you thought about a Robbie Mac mewchanical pump?

[MikeStang 247]

I'm Running an Edelbrock Quiet-Flow pump and its pretty quiet.

Its mounted just in front of the tank and I used the stock size line in stock location and it seems to feed my car just fine.

Also don't have to have a regulator or return line with this pump and it factory preset to 7psi if I recall...Seems to be a good pump so far.

I pulled power from the wire on my AAW harness that Said "Fuel Pump" haha.

On a side note, my best friend runs a Stock mechanical pump with stock lines on his 393 and it put 410 hp to the wheels and showed rich through most of the pull on the dyno, so a Stock mechanical pump will support probably close to 500hp with no problems....he has had the same pump for years with no issues.... I am considering adding a mechanical pump just ot do away with the electric because if it goes out your stuck.

[prayers1 153]

Sportsroof69- Pictures would be appreciated.  I show my car alot, so I try not to make the engine compart look like a race car, but I guess there are not many options to hide a regulator and bigger lines.

 

RPM-that price is for the Phantom Pump, you might have seen it in several magazines. Yes the cost is $1117.00, its an in tank pump.

 

BandBstangs-Thats the pump I have the RobbMc 550hp NASCAR one. I have 400 hp, so that should be fine.  I also tried an off the shelf Mech pump and same thing happened at wot.

 

Could my problem be electrical? I have a Mallory Unilte Dist, I changed the PINK res wire to 12v and I'm getting 12v at the coil and Dist. Could it be cutting out at high rpms??????????????????????????????????

[sportsroof69 13]

You could easily rout it to not make it look like a race car. I just found it easier to run my line up the passenger side, and the magnafuel regulator block isn't small, but you wouldn't need that.

[prayers1 153]

sportsroof69-What do you think about my last comment about an ignition problem.

[1969_Mach1 335]

I know back in the early 1980's Mallory Unilite distributors were very problematic.  The light triggering mechanism was very sensitive to dust and debree.  Also, are you using a small diameter distributor cap or a large diameter distributor cap?  The small diameter caps are more prone to crossfire at higher engine RPM's.

 

If you think it's a fuel issue have you tried increasing the main jet sizes in the carburetor?

 

I didn't see the specific issue.  From the posts I am assuming its a misfire at high RPM?  If that's correct, valve float can also cause that issue.

[sportsroof69 13]

sportsroof69-What do you think about my last comment about an ignition problem.

 

Well, you didn't mention having any problems in your OP, so what exactly is the problem? Is it cutting out at high RPMs, or is it just laying over? Just stops making power?

[1969_Mach1 335]

Well, you didn't mention having any problems in your OP, so what exactly is the problem? Is it cutting out at high RPMs, or is it just laying over? Just stops making power?

Good questions.  I thought I missed something.

[prayers1 153]

I have cowl mounted Fuel Pressure gauge and I watch the pressure go from 6.5 to 3-4 psi at wot.  It only drops when it starts to build rpm's.  It seems it happens above 3500 rpms. When that happens the car will fall on its face and when the pressure gets back up then it goes back to normal. Driving in traffic or hwy has no problems or fuel starvation, like I said it only happens when I nail it and the rpms get to 3500.

 

My plugs are pure white (lean) so I went from a 30 to a 35 squitter and when to 70 on the primaries, I also increased my my air bleeds.

 

As I said above, It sure seems like fuel starvation and I have chnaged everything from the tank to the carb, also removing the fuel pickup sock filter.

 

As for ignition, my tach does not jump around when it has its problem, so I'm pretty sure its fuel.

 

The last thing it could possible be is the eccentic washer that moves the fuel pump arm, there might be something wrong with that and thats a guess, that's why I want to try an Electric Pump.

[1969_Mach1 335]

First of all increasing the squirter size won't affect that condition.  Increasing the main jet size will richen the A/F mixture but increasing the high speed air bleed size may have negated increasing the main jet size.  It sounds like you may have a QFT carb?  What size is it?  Mechanical secondary or vacuum secondary?  Does it drive through the 3500 RPM or not?

 

I can understand the fluctuation in fuel pressure using a regulator without a return line.  The gauge measures static pressure.  Without going in to fluid mechanics, the static pressure will reduce as flow is increased in a fluid system that has a fixed total pressure.  Total pressure = static pressure + velocity pressure + head pressure.  So at idle there is very little fuel flow because the needle and seats are closed for longer time periods the static pressure measured on the gauge goes up.  At high speed there is more fuel flow because the needle and seats are open for longer periods of time the static pressure measured on the gauge goes down.  But, the fuel pump volume should increase with engine speed so I wouldn't expect that much of a pressure drop.  Have you tried a different mechanical pump?

[sportsroof69 13]

When I was having some issues early in my build, I mounted a fuel pressure gauge where I can see it, and I was getting a little pressure drop undear heavy load, but not like you're talking about. I don't recall seeing it below 5.5 psi, ever.

[prayers1 153]

Yes its a QFT 735 Vac.  I did try a parts store carter pump and the same results.  I spoke to a QFT tech and he was the one to say up the air bleed, prime and secondaries.  That is because my plugs are bright white and mixture screws were only turned out a 1/2 with 12" of Vac. 

 

1969_Mach 1- What do you think I should set the carb with?

[prayers1 153]

Here's a Youtube video take 11 months ago.  That's when I first started to notice thisn problem.  I made the above adjustments since and still ahve the same concern.

https://youtu.be/lAS7jHYMhgs

 

 

 

[1969_Mach1 335]

What air bleeds did you change, idle or high speed?  Idle air bleeds are the outer 4 bleeds and high speed air bleeds are the 4 inner bleeds.  I would have left the high speed air bleeds alone for now and only increased the main jet size a little, two sizes and see what happens.  Because the idle screws are only out 1/2 turn to obtain a good idle you can try increasing the size of the idle air bleeds two or three sizes to lean out the idle circuit.  You can also go down one size on the idle fuel restrictors in the metering blocks but the air bleeds are easier to get to.  I've used QFT metering blocks and the idle fuel restrictors tend to be a little large for stock and mild motors.  I've been tweaking on my QFT metering blocks a little bit at a time to lean out the idle circuit some.  Keep in mind idle and transition circuits are both controlled by the idle air bleeds and idle fuel restrictors. 

 

At 3500 RPM the issue may be occurring when the secondaries are opening up.  It's possible the vacuum secondaries are opening too fast which would cause a lean mixture and the motor will kind of roll over and feel lazy.  I haven't tinkered with vacuum secondary carbs much to know what springs in the vacuum secondary dashpot provide good starting points.  I think QFT has an adjustment screw on the vacuum secondary dashpot.  Or you'd have to install a stronger spring and see what happens.  Also, have you opened up the carb just to be sure none of the passages are blocked in the metering blocks or main body?

 

Out of curiosity is your air filter of sufficient size and the lid is not too close to the choke horn?

 

When you tried the fuel pump from the parts store did you eliminate the pressure regulator?

[prayers1 153]

Here's the QFT Factory set up, Prim Jet 68, Sec Jet 78, idle air bleed 70.

I changed the Idle Air Bleeds from 70 to 74. Prime 68 to 70, Squitter 30 to 35.

 

Now the Mixture screws turn out 3/4 for highest Vac.

 

I've tried changing the vacuum secondaries.  On the QFT, there is a side screw that allows the change.  Factory setting was 1/2 turn, I've tried a 1/4 in, too delay them and I've opened them 3/4 to one full turn. To me I didn't feel much of a difference.

 

I also made sure the transition slot was a perfect square.

 

I have not taken the metering block off, just the bowls.

Just did the changes the other day, so I looked into the carb for any obstructions.

 

Thought this info might help you guys:

Bullet grind 541/559, 270/283, 50@ 220/231, lsa 110, AOD trans, 4:11 rear

[1969_Mach1 335]

Your main jet and idle air bleed changes sound good.  I wouldn't mess with those any more.  I watched the video several times.  The fuel pressure does look strange.  But at 3 psi you'd think the fuel pump is providing more fuel than the carb needs.  Did you leave the fuel pressure regulator on when you tried the stock fuel pump from the parts store?

 

I can't tell from the video, does it ever drive through the 3500 rpm range where the power loss occurs or does it stay there?  Other than the odd fuel pressure I wonder if something is not right with the vacuum secondary's.  Still opening too fast, not opening enough or too slow, blockage in the secondary metering block.  I have heard of people rigging up paper clips on the vacuum secondary actuator rod to physically see how far the secondary's are being opened.

 

To rule out any internal issues with the carb you may have to remove the metering blocks and spray carb cleaner through all the passages and also check the passages to the booster venturies in the main body.  You seem fairly knowledgeable about this carb so you probably have the float levels set correctly. 

 

Actually, with your low rear axle gear ratio a mechanical secondary carburetor would also be suitable.

 

I guess the motor use to run fine up until about 11 months ago?  Did you change anything?

 

A few simple items:  To be certain, it's not something silly like an air filter that is too small, air cleaner lid too close to the top of the carb, a fuel filter that cannot flow enough, or the gas cap is not vented?  Is your fuel filter between the fuel pump and the carburetor it should be?

[prayers1 153]

I'll try to answer your questions in order.

I do not use a regulator, it's a mechanical fuel pump.

I can get it up to 5000 rpms and thats it

I tried a few adjustment with the Vac Sec, I've heard people use the lightest spring but QFT does not agree.

When I last had the bowls off, I noticed a yellowish gel around the power valve, I was told that was residue from gas, I have not had the metering blocks off.

I always had this problem from  day one. The entire system is only a year old.

I run the shaker scoop that doesn't allow much room, but I do take it off and use a 3 1/2" tall x 6" wide filter when I experiment.

Brand new 10 micron filter between pump and carb

I tried with the gas cap off to prevent any type of vapor lock.