Ideas about steering upgrades

[Fantastic 57]

I've been mulling the steering upgrade issue for quite some time. I'd like to spend a day in a junkyard getting the feel of some of the parts. I know there are aftermarket kits to do this, but they all seem.... Off...to me. Why? I'm not sure.

 

I put 2004 brake rotors on the car using the Vintage Venom kit. I liked the idea of bolting on Ford Mustang parts on my Ford Mustang. Now, if any kit used 2004 (or other year) mustang power rack to upgrade the '69, that would be something! So, I'm looking at the photos online and right off I see that newer mustangs have a power rack at the front of the engine rather than the rear. This means the steering direction would actually be reversed since the tie rod is attached to the front of the spindle rather than the back. The solution for that is a simple gear, which also introduces the potential of changing the wheel LTL ratio.

 

Has anyone ever played with this? I am wondering if I could develop a kit and have it modeled such that anyone could have one fabbed locally. The result would be a kit that upgrades the steering with new off the shelf mustang parts. 3D printing is rapidly changing how we look at these things.

[RPM 1,190]

Member 69Gmachine has done a ton of work on this. When I looked on his past posts it only showed a handful. I think this thread should be in the Tech Forum.

[Fantastic 57]

This is a nice summary of the upgrade options:

http://www.nzmustang.com/newintoold/newintoold.htm

[RPM 1,190]

69Gmachine also used some Wilwood spindles, iirc because the steering arms are removable and he was able to play with Ackerman. Wish I could find that thread.

[69RavenConv 286]

I don't know if one of these is the thread but maybe they're a start...

 

http://1969stang.com/forum/index.php?/topic/42854-yet-another-rp-kit-thread/

http://1969stang.com/forum/index.php?/topic/49632-front-suspension-part-ll/

 

It's unfortunate that the forum upgrade prevents us from searching for old threads but I've discovered that Google can still find them. if I Google the poster's name and a snippet of the subject I can sometimes find the old threads. The problem is that the new software uses a different URL addressing scheme than the old one but the posts are actually still on the interwebs :)

[RPM 1,190]

This 69Gmachine thread has some good info, but I thought he had one with many pages where he covers the steering development.

 

http://1969stang.com/forum/index.php?/topic/43505-wilwood-drop-spindle/

 

Here is his Cardomain site, Lots of really cool stuff, but I thought he had a write up on the rack.

 

http://www.cardomain.com/ridepost/1343081/1969-ford-mustang/

 

I keep mentioning the spindles because they play a huge part in steering. Hopefully I'll find the steering rack thread.

 

 

I'm going to move this thread to the Tech Forum at the end of the day.

[stangs-R-me 120]

There is also this ...

 

http://www.cjponyparts.com/electric-power-steering-conversion-kit-1967-1969/p/PSKE3/

 

... CJ also has the mfr's. installation instructions and I was even more interested after reading though it:

 

http://assets.cjponyparts.com/skin/frontend/cj-pony/default/images/install-pdf/install_pske3.pdf 

 

 

I've got a 4-speed and want to retain the factory z-bar set up, so the Borgenson is out for me.   4-Speed Z-Bar combined with PDB makes that area too crowded anyway.

 

First saw the EPAS in a Mustang Monthly article a while back but it was done to an earlier car.   Got an e-mail from CJ a while back and they stated they now had the EPAS systems for up to '70, so I had to look into it.   Price is kinda steep, but I think conversion may be less work and don't need to mess with hoses, pulleys, or any steering linkage.

 

I think the factory MS quick-ratio box (same ratio as factory PS box) is an acceptable ratio and since this EPAS has an adjustment for amount of electric assist, I think I could be happier with this then any rack or powered box conversion where there is no "assist adjustment".

 

Just another option that was NOT listed in the link in the 3rd post.

 

Doug 

[69RavenConv 286]

I don't know anything about the subject but I've been following this thread on VMF about installing an EPS system from a Saturn in a vintage Mustang for cheap...

 

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/787114-best-200-mod-ever-eps.html

[Rsanter 152]

Before the R&P kits came out there were some articles about people using the rack from a ford torus in the early mustangs.
I looked at this back then but didn't do it. Some of the Hondas also have a rear steer location rack that could be used

In my 69 I used the CPP integral box conversion. The only problem is that I had to dent the tower a little to get it to fit.

Back when I was in college, there was a guy that used the integral box from a Toyota and put it into his 69-70 fastback

Bob

[blueblood 26]

Before the R&P kits came out there were some articles about people using the rack from a ford torus in the early mustangs.

I looked at this back then but didn't do it. Some of the Hondas also have a rear steer location rack that could be used

In my 69 I used the CPP integral box conversion. The only problem is that I had to dent the tower a little to get it to fit.

Back when I was in college, there was a guy that used the integral box from a Toyota and put it into his 69-70 fastback

Bob

Bob,

Do you have some feedback on this install and the outcome? Did you change the pump also?

[rwcstang 201]

found the video on how to install that electric steering that CJPP and Mustangsplus sells.

 

it looks like a good part but too much money (I rather go rack n pinion) and who knows how long the durability will be, this would suck if you were autocrossin' or road racing and then the e.steering fails..

 

[Rsanter 152]

Bob,

Do you have some feedback on this install and the outcome? Did you change the pump also?

I am still using the original pump. The power steering is not as power as I would like at idle. One problem may be that I put the March pullies on the engine which slow the pump down a little. I have been meaning to go back to the stock pullies to see what the difference will be but I like the March ones and have not had the time.

I did not want to run the Saginaw pump as is standard in their kit.

 

I have been learning about power steering pumps as well. It seems that there are pumps are configured as such...

Low pressure, high flow

High pressure high flow

High pressure low flow

 

What I need to know is what the original ford pump is and what the box requires.

Measuring pressure is easy, measuring flow is hard.

 

I also only bought their steering box and not their whole kit as I did not want their pump or their hoses ( I don't like how they route them) so I also did not get the steering coupler that is in their kit.

What I found out is that the steering couple off a mid 70s vette goes right onto their box so likly most Chevy couplers will work.

I did not want to cut the end of the column so I took the Chevy coupler apart and used the bottom half and bolted it to the rag joint and then to the ford steering column. I have already told CPP that they need to change this and only sell the bottom or tell the customer that this is an option verses cutting the column.

I have also told CPP thay they need to make a box for the mustang that uses the stock pitman spline so that people can use the stock manual steering pitman on these cars and they do not need to make a custom one for the application. They way they have it I had to buy the power steering eliminator piece that goes on the end of the drag link. It works fine but I really wanted something that was better but still looks as stock as possible.

As it is unless it is pointed out people do not know I have anything but a stock setup in the car. I am overall mape with the setup but there are improvements that still need to be made as I get the time

 

Bob