Power Steering Reccomendations

[jfried 13]

Hello All,

 

I'm new to the Classic Mustang world, having just picked up a 1969 302 Automatic Acapulco Blue Convertible!

 

It's an older restoration (~10 years) but has been kept in impeccable shape. The car is a pretty base car, but was upgraded with power brakes (front discs) when the restoration was done.

 

Having now completed some reasonable driving with the car, one thing that I think requires some immediate attention is some form of power steering... so my question is, what are the common / reccomended retrofits? I know there's a couple of electric kits out there for ~$1500, the Saturn Vue electric retrofit for ~$200, and I'd imagine a bunch more using traditional power steering pumps.

 

My goal is really to improve everyday street livability, and also hopefully gain a tilting column in the process.

[Rsanter 152]

You have several options

 

Go with an original bone stock system

 

Go with a rack&pinion conversion system

 

Go with a borgeson integral box system

 

Go with an electric power steering system

 

So the questions becomes...how good of a mechanic are you? How good of a fabricator are you? How much money do you have to spend on the conversion? Do you care about originality? What do you want to do with the car

 

Bob

[jfried 13]

Thanks Bob, I guess I should've put that info in as well.

 

My mechanic skills are pretty much limited to bolt-in installations, and I don't have a lift... if I need to get my mechanic to do the conversion though, that is something I'm prepared to do. In terms of money, my preference is to not spend $2000 after it's all said and done, but I want to do it right, and put something in something that I'm not going to be pulling out in a couple of years. I don't care at all about originality, as my eventual / gradual plans are to resto-mod the car into a pro-touring style.

 

Also, if I can find a system that helps eliminate the "slack" in the stock system, I certainly wouldn't mind that as well.

 

Jason

[DocWok 30]

Hi,

 

I installed a Borgeson set up on my car, I am happy with it.

 

Went in easy, works very well.

 

Added some extra +Castor to the wheel alignment as per Borgeson's instructions.

 

I haven't experience any return to centre issues some others have made comment on.

[Jimjific 23]

jfried, My advice is to go with a rack setup. Nothing beats them especially with your pro-touring thoughts. I have a simple "J" car rack in mine and love it. It is the best handling Mustang of the 10+ I've ever had. Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

 

Jim

[jfried 13]

I guess this is a real newbie question, but what is a "J car" rack? Is it a power rack? or just rack & pinion?

[coz 108]

http://www.randallsrack.com/

 

Bolt on, works well - won't need to replace it.  Works with most headers.

[Jimjific 23]

jfried, "J" cars are a GM platform from 80's thru the 90's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_J_platform

 

Although Randalls Rack uses a "J" car rack, it is modified and you are subject to dealing with him only if you have problems. From my experience, this wasn't the best experience I've had with a vendor. My "J" car rack is located further back and is used just as it came out of the box so I can go to NAPA and get a replacement for about $100 if need be. I'd point you to my install but since the new site changeover, all of my posts are gone.

 

Jim

[po51 21]

I would talk to Dan at Chockstang you might want to go with factory stuff, a problem if you go to Borgesen is most if not all tilt steering set ups will not work!

[jfried 13]

That's too bad.. can you give me the quick rundown? How much fabrication was involved? Did you put in a power rack, or manual rack? Was your car power or manual before? Did you have to replace the steering column?

 

Also, I may have access to a rack from a 2005 Mustang... would that be an appropriate base?

[69volunteer 84]

I'm not sure I would recommend the install of original components. My car was an original PS car and I had everything rebuilt by a reputable restorer here in the area. Its 'ok'....in hindsight, I think I would look at R&P

[jfried 13]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards modernizing.... the question is,

 

I'm not sure I would recommend the install of original components. My car was an original PS car and I had everything rebuilt by a reputable restorer here in the area. Its 'ok'....in hindsight, I think I would look at R&P

 

Yeah, I'm leaning towards modernizing with Rack & Pinion, but also am getting a bit of sticker shock on the price tag...

 

Seems like the rack kits are approximately $2000, add a tilt column and it's another $500, plus what else is required to fit a power rack to a non-PS car?

[Rip Rock 13]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards modernizing.... the question is,

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm leaning towards modernizing with Rack & Pinion, but also am getting a bit of sticker shock on the price tag...

 

Seems like the rack kits are approximately $2000, add a tilt column and it's another $500, plus what else is required to fit a power rack to a non-PS car?

Some require their own ps pump as well. They get pricy for sure. Tcp makes one as well, although a bit on the pricy side. Agreed we with 69volunteer. I wouldn't rebuild the oem, I have also did this with marginal gains. Although maybe I'm expecting more for less.

[jfried 13]

Does anyone here have experience with the rack & pinion retrofit kits out there?

[Rsanter 152]

Does anyone here have experience with the rack & pinion retrofit kits out there?

I have never been a fan of the R&P conversion kits. All of them have shortcomings or are so damn expensive.....or both

 

For one, the car was not designed for rack and pinion so the spindle arms are too long. The reduces turning radius. You can put a bump steer kit in it to help but it's still not the correct geometry.

 

I experimented with making my own kit using racks fro GM, Honda, and ford. You will always have a compromise.

 

What I did in my car was to use the steering box from CPP and then used the factory pump as I did not want to use that GM pump the recomend. I am very happy with the conversion so far. I have had no troubles with return to center like some have complained with on the borgeson. I did however have to put a small clearance dent in the back of the shock tower ( which I was not happen about)

 

Bob

[danno 128]

So many choices!  There is never  a simple yes or no answer, unless  I am offered a cold beer!  I installed a Randalls rack 10 years ago when they were much cheaper. It bolted right on, maybe had to drill a couple holes.  No bump steer issues with it, but the turning radius is reduced a bit. It is a huge improvement in drivability, been fairly pleased with it since. Like previously mentioned, it is based on the GM rack system from mid size early 90's GM cars.   It would be cheap to go with the factory system, there are a lot of us who took it off to put in a rack system, and sell the old system for pennies. Nobody wants them.

[MikeStang 247]

I Would Opt for an original system.

I rebuilt all my old stuff and upgraded to a newer model PS pump which mandated I get a hose made and buy an adapter but it works perfectly and does not leak.

I would also recommend a smaller diameter steering wheel, as it helps remove some of the leverage and over correction with the big wheel and stock systems.

My car drives like a dream...Couldnt be happier

[jfried 13]

So many choices!  There is never  a simple yes or no answer, unless  I am offered a cold beer!  I installed a Randalls rack 10 years ago when they were much cheaper. It bolted right on, maybe had to drill a couple holes.  No bump steer issues with it, but the turning radius is reduced a bit. It is a huge improvement in drivability, been fairly pleased with it since. Like previously mentioned, it is based on the GM rack system from mid size early 90's GM cars.   It would be cheap to go with the factory system, there are a lot of us who took it off to put in a rack system, and sell the old system for pennies. Nobody wants them.

 

Did you convert to power at the time?

[Max Power 74]

I Would Opt for an original system.

I rebuilt all my old stuff and upgraded to a newer model PS pump which mandated I get a hose made and buy an adapter but it works perfectly and does not leak.

I would also recommend a smaller diameter steering wheel, as it helps remove some of the leverage and over correction with the big wheel and stock systems.

My car drives like a dream...Couldnt be happier

You have to keep in mind the manual steering boxes were 19:1 and PS boxes were 16:1, so he probably has little chance on over correction if he keeps t he original manual box.

[SM69Mach 68]

I opted for the unisteer system when I upgraded my suspension. Bolted right up. I enlarged the holes they had for the LCA eccentric bolts cause I used eliminators, but other than that no issues bolting it up. I also went with a Tilt column and new wheel and could not be happier. My old non power steering was wore out and somewhat scary to drive. Love the feel of the rack, especially with the bigger tires I am running and the weight of a big block. I don't feel like I have been to the gym after driving the car any more.

[SA69mach 39]

I have a couple of questions before my recommendation

 

Is your car a factory manual steering car ?   And is it still that way now, with factory manual center link and steering box?

 

Tilt column?

 

Rag joint connection between the steering column shaft and steering box?

 

While you are down there, can you take a picture of the box, maybe note the markings  (will be something like SMB-K)

 

Stock spindles?

 

Thanks in advance

[jfried 13]

I have a couple of questions before my recommendation

 

Is your car a factory manual steering car ?   And is it still that way now, with factory manual center link and steering box?

 

Tilt column?

 

Rag joint connection between the steering column shaft and steering box?

 

While you are down there, can you take a picture of the box, maybe note the markings  (will be something like SMB-K)

 

Stock spindles?

 

Thanks in advance

 

As far as I understand, the car is completely as equipped in 1969 from a steering perspective... no tilt... manual steering.

[jfried 13]

I opted for the unisteer system when I upgraded my suspension. Bolted right up. I enlarged the holes they had for the LCA eccentric bolts cause I used eliminators, but other than that no issues bolting it up. I also went with a Tilt column and new wheel and could not be happier. My old non power steering was wore out and somewhat scary to drive. Love the feel of the rack, especially with the bigger tires I am running and the weight of a big block. I don't feel like I have been to the gym after driving the car any more.

 

Interesting... what tilt column did you use? any regrets with the system? How did it impact turning radius?

[SA69mach 39]

I would recommend a replacement box with integral power, such as Borgeson, Flaming River or the new CPP box.

 

They have 14:1 steering ratio, which is a nice improvement over stock, and quickens the steering to more modern feel and standards/expectations  Be sure and get the faster ratio 14:1.

Your center link, tie rods, and turning circle remain stock, unaltered.

Fits in the same space as the old manual box

Works with a stock power steering pump, brackets and pulleys, if you want to keep the stock look. (Borgeson will, not sure on CPP or FR)

Less complex hose arrangement than stock PS.

Fairly economical choice compared to R&P.

 

I don't know much about electric power steering, so cant make comment or compare.

 

Adding a roller idler arm will help smoothness

 

There are some nice choices around.  I have R&P fitted to two cars.  One is great, one is just OK. Both new, high quality kits specific for the model.  Good, but not amazing for the money. 

[lanky 44]

Did Borgeson really start selling a 14:1 unit... right after I got mine installed? Arrrrgggggghhh!