Build 5 speed conversion or buy kit

[rwcstang 201]

hello all, 

 

Its been awhile since I have been on here, but I need your help again.

 

So I am finally going to do a 5 speed conversion after saving every cent I had, I wanted to see what are your recommendations on doing a TKO Swap.

 

Would it be better to build my own? or better to buy a complete kit ( I was thinking of going with Moderndriveline)

 

if I build my own conversion, what parts would you recommend?

 

for some who dont know what I am running its a 393w stroker. this will be an automatic c4 to manual conversion and currently running long tubes, so I most likely I will go with Hydraulic clutch.

 

I know some say they had to modify the tunnel and others didn't modify, for those who didn't modify the tunnel what parts did you use and what do I need to look out for?

 

Thanks everyone!

 

 

[Mike65 475]

I am doing a T-5 swap in my 69 Coupe & I was going to use Modern Driveline's kit.

[Protowrxs 111]

I really can't say if buying or building is best as mine isn't on the road but it hasn't been bad building. I modified a trans mount, bought a master / slave kit, made my own slave mount, modified the clutch pedal, and am just about to drop the engine and trans in for final setup. I'm sure I saved some money but the main thing for me was the experience, and figuring it out. Also, when I started this it was quite a while ago and options where limited. The hardest part may well be finding a clutch pedal unless there are reproductions now. I had one from literally decades ago so didn't have that worry.

 

Good luck, just my experience to date...

 

Stephen

[SM69Mach 68]

When I did my swap I used the Modern Driveline kit just for the ease of getting everything I needed.  I also opted for this since I have a big block.  I know some of the small blocks you can get different bell housings to fit some of the TKO's (I am not sure what fits what) but that could help save some money.  I found a good deal on the tranny and then got everything else from them.  Even helped during the install with some questions I had.  Was easy enough to call them up and they walked me through a couple of things.  I probably could have saved money by searching around for the cheapest price on every item, but I like what they put together and was happy with the Customer Service. 

 

As for the trans tunnel.  I did not have to modify mine to get the trans to fit.  I ordered their trans mount that lowers the back of the trans but it didn't fit properly, so I ended up using my stock mount and modifying it a bit to fit around the bottom part of the trans.  Worked out fine with no issues.  Now, its a tight fit, but I did not have to modify anything in the tunnel to get it to fit. The tightest spot is thee cross over brace in the tunnel.  You may have to clearance some there. 

 

Just for reference, I used their hydraulic clutch set up with the hydraulic TO bearing and not the salve unit.  Just a personal decision, as I know a lot of guys go for the slave unit as it is easier to repair/replace if something goes wrong.  So far no issues.  I also bought their offset shifter and it fit perfectly in the shifter hole with no modifications either. 

 

Good luck, I certainly have enjoyed the car much more since the 5 speed swap and the lower RPM's while cruising are a nice bonus. 

[j69302 11]

Make it easy on yourself, use a kit. With modern driveline, there is absolutely ZERO guess work.

 

I bought the complete kit from Modern Driveline, came with literally every nut and bolt - I cannot think of anything that I had to buy seperate. I went with the cable clutch setup, talk to Bruce at Modern Driveline. Your headers may work just fine with their cable clutch. I have had it since End of 2008, haven't done a thing to it since 100 miles after installing it. The cable will stretch a little, but that is normal. Hasn't stretched or been adjusted since I last adjusted it in 2008, and there are no signs of heat damage so I have zero concern with it. But I do have headers that fit well with it. So you will need to ask about them if the only reason you were going to do hydraulic is because of your headers.

 

Although not needed, I highly, highly,  recommend a set of lowered engine mounts, such as Ron Morris. Not needed, but will make installation and final driveline angle much better and easier. Also, when you mount your transmission to the cross member, you can shim it up about 1/2-3/4 inch. I made shims out of 1/8 inch steel plates and shimmed it until I had 1-2 thread protruding from the locknuts on the trans mount. If you get one of Modern Drivelines modified rounded case, you can shim it up even more and really dial in your driveline angle.

 

One thing I wish I had paid more attention to before I bought, was gearing. You will want to compare the .84 RR (road race) 5th gear vs the standard .63(.67?) 5th gear. I really really wish I had gone with the road race gearing instead. However, with a 393 stroker, I figure it will be able to push right through it with ease, I have a mild 302.

[coz 108]

Yep - agreed.  Go with a kit.  I did and had no issues.  All the parts were included and the directions were spot on.  The company I bought from went under but here's who bought their stock.  http://shiftsst.com/mustang-cougar-1964-1970#overview-quote

 

Also - as j69302 states you want the .82 final gear and not the .64.  I have the .64 and hate it.  I'm going to have the final gear replaced when I pull the tranny.

 

Hyd. clutch is the way to go.  Getting it connected can be a pain unless you have a fairly large window in your bell housing.  Took me hours to get that damn nut screwed in.  Had to use crow's feet pliers and turn it a millimeter at a time.

[rwcstang 201]

So if I go with the 80OD, what would be good rear end gears? 3:55's or 3:80s? (running 8")

[coz 108]

I run 3.89 gears but on a 9" Moser.  I like more gear so I'd go up to 3.75 or so.   Lot's of guys run 3.55's - I'm sure they'll ring in.

 

Even with the .82 final gear you can run 3.89 - I'd prefer that really and like I said I plan to make the swap out.  There's lots of calculators out there that can help you with RPM based on gears and tire height.

 

I tach 2200 in 5th gear at 85mph.  Any lower RPM and my engine lugs along.  I think if I ran the .82 5th gear it would tach at 2850 if I remember correctly.

[j69302 11]

So if I go with the 80OD, what would be good rear end gears? 3:55's or 3:80s? (running 8")

 

When I get off work Ill try to upload a spreadsheet for comparing different gearing.. You can't just ask whats a good gear. It's much more complicated than that.

 

I found the spreadsheet on one of these forumsa while ago, I do not remember who made it. But I copy and pasted so you can compare 3 different transmissions/gearing. It takes into account tire size and everything, shift points, You will want to use this spread sheet to get you "cruise MPH" to match your engines intended "cruise range".

 

My opinion is that the standard 5th gear TKO has WAAAAY too much spread in between 4th gear and 5th. Using that spreadsheet, If you use a rear end ratio to try and get a standard 5th gear to my desired RPM range for cruise, then 1-4th gear become too low.

 

I have 245/60/15 tires and a 2.79 rear end right now. 80mph is 1800 rpms, 60mph is about 1500. If I had the road race gearing, i would leave my rear end where its at. I am considering a 3.25. I certainly would not go any higher than a 3.50.  It makes the lower gears pretty much useless in my opionion.

 

I can start no problems in second, a little slippage in third. The TKO 1st-4th gearing is already fairly low in my opionion. But my logic is for cruising, not running through the gears as fast as I can.

 

My end goal is to get RPMs at 80mph around 2200 In 5th.

[j69302 11]

Here is the gear calculator. Also has a speedometer calculator, calibrated for 1000 RPMs per mile.

 

Only change the values in yellow highlighted cells. A cell of any other color contains a formula, and if you type into it, the formula will be gone.

 

I did not make this, I found it on a forum some where, and modified it to compare multiple wheel/tire, transmission and rear end combinations.

GearCalculator.zip

[rwcstang 201]

Thanks for the link J69302, I think ill be goign with the 82 (RR) and prolly go with some 3:55's to be somewhat streetable lol this thing will never be in a race track and most tracks are 2-4hrs away from me. lol

 

Most likely im going to go with MDL TKO600 Kit. will update soon! :)

 

hmmm..didn't uploaded a pic, site a bit buggy?

[1969_Mach1 333]

rwcstang,

 

Since you have that 393 stroker motor, I would hold off on changing the gears in that 8".  Keep your eyes open for a used 9" to fit your car.  Then build the 9" as you get funds for it and swap out the entire rear end.  Just my thought, I'm not a big fan of the 8" rear axle.

[rwcstang 201]

@1969_Mach1 I would love a 9" but there are none around my area, and if there is, ppl would want it for 1500-2k used! lol

 

most likely ill wait, but then I would have to change my rear brakes adapter plates to accommodate the big bearing housing. though i herd u can have small bearings housing. I will look into it but right now i was thing of going with an ebay seller that claims his 8" can put up 550hp. I believe some user's have his rear end on here.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I've heard "big bearing" before for 9" rear axles.  I believe there are two different 9" axles available.  I think the large bearing models are for later year axles, or trucks, or big block 428, 429 cars.  I remember pulling axles out of an old Ford Cyclone with a 429 and it had big axle bearings.  Somebody else here might chime in with more information.  Every time I buy any part related to the rear axle bearing for my 1969 9" it ends up being the smaller of the two sizes.  When I bought my Moser Engineering 31 spline axles, it ended up being the smaller of the two bearing sizes.  Do some research on that.  There are two different axle bearing size 9" rear ends available.

[shaun071 62]

My 9" is small bearing, same flange bolt pattern as 8". Would a truck diff be easier/ cheaper to find? Maybe gat a truck 9" and as part of the rebuild get it cut down to mustang length and fit small bearing flanges. From what I hear 8" axles will fit a 28 spline 9" centre as well

[barnett468 418]

.

 

if you dont speed shift with your foot on the floor i would buy a new z spec t5 from ford racing.

 

if you beat the crap out of it, i would buy a junk t5 and a gear street synchro 2.95 gear set from g force.

[rwcstang 201]

.

 

if you dont speed shift with your foot on the floor i would buy a new z spec t5 from ford racing.

 

if you beat the crap out of it, i would buy a junk t5 and a gear street synchro 2.95 gear set from g force.

 

 

That was the option I was going to go with, but I wanted to a strong trans incase I decided to go for more power, so TKO600 (RR) should be a good base.

 

I even spoke with Bruce at MDL and he recommended to with tko600, so I went with that kit.

[1969_Mach1 333]

@1969_Mach1 I would love a 9" but there are none around my area, and if there is, ppl would want it for 1500-2k used! lol

 

most likely ill wait, but then I would have to change my rear brakes adapter plates to accommodate the big bearing housing. though i herd u can have small bearings housing. I will look into it but right now i was thing of going with an ebay seller that claims his 8" can put up 550hp. I believe some user's have his rear end on here.

 

I didn't know they were hard to find.  20 years ago a 9" rear axle was a dime-a-dozen.  There may still be a guy in San Jose CA that has a lot of used Mustang parts.  Goes by the nick name "Packi".  Its been a long time since I bought parts from him.  I use to go to him for general used Mustang parts when I was doing my restoration.  His prices were reasonable compared to any of the Mustang shops selling used parts.  If you like, I can send you a PM with the phone number I have.  Hopefully he hasn't changed it

 

Those images below are not mine!  Really! I cannot believe this issue hasn't been fixed!  What has the site owner been doing!

[rwcstang 201]

I didn't know they were hard to find.  20 years ago a 9" rear axle was a dime-a-dozen.  There may still be a guy in San Jose CA that has a lot of used Mustang parts.  Goes by the nick name "Packi".  Its been a long time since I bought parts from him.  I use to go to him for general used Mustang parts when I was doing my restoration.  His prices were reasonable compared to any of the Mustang shops selling used parts.  If you like, I can send you a PM with the phone number I have.  Hopefully he hasn't changed it

 

Those images below are not mine!  Really! I cannot believe this issue hasn't been fixed!  What has the site owner been doing!

 

Unfortunately, I've called and left messages last month but never got a return call. I think he's not doing it anymore. However, I did find one person in vallejo that has tons of 67-70 parts so Hopefully he has something.

[1969_Mach1 333]

Unfortunately, I've called and left messages last month but never got a return call. I think he's not doing it anymore. However, I did find one person in vallejo that has tons of 67-70 parts so Hopefully he has something.

 

That might be.  I think his father used to own Mustangs-R-Us because one time Packi didn't have the trim I was looking for at his house so I followed him to Mustangs-R-Us (which was closed) to get it.

 

From my experience he used to have another job and did this on the side.  Plus, he never returned calls so it was a bit of a gamble to get a hold of him.  It was one of those situations that looked sketchy but it wasn't.  I never had any issues.  I returned parts a couple of times for a refund and there were no issues.

[chillininnh 21]

FYI. I'm using the .64 TKO600 and running a 3.70 gears. At 80 mph I'm turning 2400 rpms.

[rwcstang 201]

FYI. I'm using the .64 TKO600 and running a 3.70 gears. At 80 mph I'm turning 2400 rpms.

How's the performance with that trans? good pick up?