Differences in 69 and 70 drum brake spindles

[SA69mach 39]

If you have problems once it is plumbed in, you may have a volume problem.  Unlikely unless the  MC is very small bore, but something to keep in mind.

Sounds like a great kit.  Glad you got some spindles to suit.  You have a 70 so your tie rod ends will fit the new spindles.

 

What size rotors on this kit?

What size wheels do you have?  Those things go together.

 

Hope it all goes smoothly.

[miketyler 15]

Thanks! The rotors are 13" x 1.125". My car has 17" TTII's all the way around. My spindles arrived today and look pretty good. I'll need to go buy new Timken bearings but as a test, the SSBC rotors should mount on the drum spindles using my existing OEM disc bearings right?

[SA69mach 39]

Yes, the hub rotors should be a match for the oem bearings. I assume you are going to try a test fit? I would too haha. Those rotors and calipers should be sweet.!

[miketyler 15]

Cool - hopefully wil test fit and start the install this weekend. The kit is advertised for a standard brake 65-69 cars and includes ther PN# 0405 SSBC master cylinder with a prop valve. On the parts list its described as "M/C 1"bore '67-72 Mustang Power" I read somewhere else that the 0405 M/C will not fit OEM power boosters. Is the OEM power disc brake M/C a 1" bore? 

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ssb-0405

 

[SA69mach 39]

My advice with ALL brake caliper and rotor swaps is "Only change one thing at a time"

Unless your oem booster and Master Cylinder are completely useless, leave them on until you have the new rotors on, and have confirmed the  calipers operate, with the current MC (and the volume it uses).

[Kris01 10]

http://www.mustangtek.com/sidebyside/images/SSspindle_000.jpg

 

'69 on left. '70 on right

[miketyler 15]

Good pic, thanks. They are night and day different arent they?

 

Got the rotors test fit yesterday with the 70 spindle in the vise. It does look like these will work on 70 spindles with 70 disc bearings. (yay) However, I need to chase down low profile castle nut.The ones included in the kit are for the 69 spindle and are a coarse thread and smaller dia. I could possibly use the original but would have to use smaller pin as it doesnt screw down far enough to clear the hole. Pics later 

[miketyler 15]

pics: 

[Rip Rock 13]

I just saw this topic, and realized I have 70 drum spindles on my shelf. Those ssbc's look very nice, great choice.

[miketyler 15]

They will come in handy if you decide to upgrade your brakes. 

[Rip Rock 13]

They will come in handy if you decide to upgrade your brakes.

 

I actually have an r&c front end, so I don't need them anymore.

I had no idea that the 69 are very different from a 70 spindle. Very informative thread. May keep them now.

[miketyler 15]

I got the brakes installed and first drive wasnt a stellar event. The calipers actuall rub on my 17 Torque Thrust II's. The funny thing is they are close but they clear when the car is on jacks.I will probably need to run a 1/8" spacer to clear this and am unsure what that will do to my fender lip clearance.  Then there's the brake feel....not so great. Maybe I need a larger volume MC? I may try bleeding them again but fluid was coming thru pretty clean.

 

How can I be sure its a MC volume issue? The MC that came with the kit has a 1" plunger BTW.

[SA69mach 39]

Volume problems - I have just solved mine after well over 12 months of frustration and wasted money.

 

The pedal feel is like nothing you would expect. Not really spongey, not hard, as you can feel a 'full stop' on a brake pedal.

 

It will feel firm, almost hard, but then more foot pressure will allow you to push all the way to the floor, with NO FURTHER BRAKE EFFECT. It will slow the car, but the brake effect simply does not have enough pressure to clamp the calipers tight on the rotors.

It feels as if something in the pedal bracket is bending.

 

What exact symptoms do you have in driving and braking, and pedal feel?

[miketyler 15]

I only took the car out for a short 10 min test drive when I finished up last night. Although the calipers cleared the wheels on jacks, it seems both wheels are touching them when driving. The left side even developed a thump that got worse as the brakes heated up. I have ordered 1/8" spacers that I hope will remedy that.

 

The brake pedal is nice and firm sitting on jackstands. When I am driving, its almost like I dont have any brake booster affect. Pedal does not go to the floor. My OEM discs stopped the car better but I always thought should have been more affective. Maybe I should vacuum test the booster first? Also noticed a tedancy to pull to the drivers side when brakes are applied. The SSBC guide advises that under such a condtion the pulling side is doing its job and its the other side that needs to be focused on.I'll start with rebleeding it.

 

The A120-3 kit is for a non power assist brake cars and includes a non power MC and an adjustable prop valve. As we discussed previous I really was hoping to keep all my stock plumbing and distribution block.    

[miketyler 15]

And of course the above pictures were not added by me. Please ignore.

[SA69mach 39]

Probably a silly question, but, did you spray brake cleaner on the disc rotor surface after the install? They must be perfectly clean. Grease or oil will greatly reduce braking effect, and can immediately and permanently damage the pads.

 

Did you install the new master cylinder with this kit (despite my Golden Rule)?

[miketyler 15]

No, I didnt wipe them down but they were very clean. I still have the original OEM MC and brake booster installed.

[SA69mach 39]

Good.

The diagnostic part is sometimes frustrating and time consuming, but you have to pinpoint the fault. You should consider a brake pressure gauge and screw it into the bleeder hole, and take pressure readings at all brake calipers and wheel cylinders.

 

You need 600 psi to operate a brake caliper. Less than that you have found a clue, more than 1200 psi is overpressure.

 

One thing worth doing is to remove the brake pads and put in some slightly thinner slats of wood, in place of the pads. This will allow for you pump up the brakes and force the pistons out farther than they are now. You are looking for two things

First, see that all the pistons move out. That shows you do not have a seized piston, and the seals are still good

Second, you want to see the clamping force for each piston on the wood.

 

Don't fill the MC bowl when you do this, unless it is going to go dry. When you push the pistons back into place the fluid level will return to 'normal' You may need to use a G clamp to re-set the pistons. Take care to avoid the pistons popping right out.

 

For sure you should check for vacuum leak on the booster. A working booster has a particular sound and feel when 'assisting' the pedal push. If you just feel a dead, firm pedal at all times, especially after the engine is running, the booster may be shot. They can be rebuilt.

 

Last thing I can think of is look at the flow, and the force of flow from the brakes during bleeding. It will indicate how your pressure distribution is happening. If your rears are very weak flow, you may have a failed or blocked distribution block. Plumbing in an adjustable valve (like the Wilwood, Baer or similar) will give you both an adjustable bias block, and a brake light actuator. What you lose is the idiot light from the oem distribution block. The oem block is rebuildable with a kit, if you want to do that.

 

You cant assume the calipers are perfect since you bought them second hand. I find brakes can be very challenging for such a supposedly simple system. You could easily go to a 1 1/8th inch bore master cylinder with a boosted system, and that would be a smart thing if you have indications of volume problems (low pressure at the front calipers, or poor piston movement)

[miketyler 15]

Good info, thanks.

 

The kit included a MC and adjustable dist block with a pressure gauge. I can use the pressure gauge from it at each wheel to see what pressure I am getting. With the way the OEM discs behaved I wouldnt be surprised if the booster or the dist block are causing my issues. I thought I had read somewhere that more plunger dia would require more foot pressure? I want to make the OEM MC work if I can. Since the included MC has a 1"bore, it makes sense that the OEM MC should be sufficient.

 

I hope the spacer plates dont cause additional issues and should have them Friday. One odd thing that I noticed is that the discs have considerable darkening in the contact areas. The rotors had a bright finish on them until the first drive and it doesnt wipe off with brake cleaner. The discs were marked left and right and I made sure they were placed on the correct side. I tried to contact SSBC yesterday and sat on hold for over 30 mins before I had to drop.

[SA69mach 39]

Fair enough. I had no magic bullets when having problems with my brakes. Maybe you will be more fortunate.

 

Please post the pressure results for all 4 brakes. Bear in mind if you have a volume deficiency, the readings will be low first pump, but may creep up to around 600. That is a false reading, and confuse me, mainly because I was not really willing to accept it as the problem. What happens is perhaps one piston on each caliper will push hard, the rest stay static. I even observed rotors flexing with application of pedal.

Now I know the cause, it all seems so ...logical. But it stumped a lot of folks.

 

The distribution block is a flow-through device. Any blockages will create big problems.

 

The pedal feel for volume deficiency is unmistakable. Very odd. Firm and then hard steady push will take it to the floor. You said it is firm and does not go to the floor.

 

1. Faulty or blocked dist valve

2. Faulty or blocked caliper channels/seals

3. Glazed rotors and pads.

 

It is most unlikely that a seized piston or stuck piston seal could withstand the pressure of brake application, in those cases it usually blows out and pukes fluid.

[sixt9stang 36]

I just saw this topic, and realized I have 70 drum spindles on my shelf. Those ssbc's look very nice, great choice.

Want to sell them? :)

[miketyler 15]

Got my spacers yesterday and temps have warmed up a bit here in DFW this weekend. Hopefully I can make some progress on this today 

[RPM 1,190]

Are you going to address the excessively high ride height of the car?

[miketyler 15]

Yeah, I really need to do something about that. It is a cool look but I miss the ride quality of stock height. I have been discussing this in another thread and plan to focus on improving that next. The car will be coming up at least an inch or more, just not sure how I am going to do it.

 

I had a chance to look at the brakes again yesterday. I installed the spacers and now the wheels clear the calipers. However, i have a mild tire rub on DS when turning. I can clear this where it will be ok but when I raise the car back up it should clear it further. I tested the brake booster in a less technical manner by disconnecting the vacuum. It made brake affect so much worse I didn't have to pull it out of the driveway to tell. I am convinced the booster is doing it's job.

 

While I had wheels off I cleaned the brake pad material from the discs and followed SSBC break-in procedure. This seems to have cleared the cosmetic concerns I had on brake pad material sticking to the disc. Looking at the calipers closely I could see all four pucks have moved from their full-in position and all have uniform 3/32" exposed. The SSBC folks agree that the stock MC with 1" dia plunger should provide all needed pressure for the new front discs as well as the SSBC rear discs. My DS pulling issue still exists and becomes more noticeable once brakes have heated up during an aggressive stop. I plan to re-bleed all four later today to see if that improves it. Brake pedal feel is rock hard and firm.

 

I would still like to check pressure at the calipers at some point but will need to get some plumbing fittings to do that. For now the car is safe to drive. I wouldn't describe them as "night and day" difference but I would say they are a little better than OEM discs at this point.

[Rip Rock 13]

Want to sell them? :)

Sure. I'm way up in Alberta so you know.

 

 

Did you do ss flex lines on this install as well?