Engine build

[sportsroof69 13]

And as far as calling places up and shooting shit to waste time....lol

 

 

My car isn't the only car I'm involved with. I wouldn't have those types of places build an engine for this car, but for our 275 and 235 cars, it's a bit different.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

Well, as I said from the beginning.

 

I don't care if it's forged, or cast, these parts flex and move. So maybe I should have been more specific for the literal types we have. Everything will flex and the amount of flexing (twisting) that you'll see in this application is acceptable. If anyone doesn't believe it, put a forged crank in and it'll be fine. I'll keep using my crank that apparently breaks at 500 horsepower, and it'll be fine as well. The best option is to use what your builder suggests.

 

I guess you are keeping these places to look secret? I'm just trying to understand the theory/rationale behind the comment about a forged crank leading to failures in a stock block.

 

I never said a cast crank breaks at 500hp.

[sportsroof69 13]

Pretty sure I named 2 places.

 

 

And I wasn't referring to you on the crank breaking at 500 hp.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

Pretty sure I named 2 places.

 

 

 

interesting because in the following thread, Scott Foxwell notes to the op, why bother with a cast crank when a forged crank is so cheap. I don't get the impression from that particular comment that a forged crank can be all that bad in a stock block (I would assume the op in that thread is using a stock block if they are asking about cast cranks).

 

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259142

 

Scott Foxwell is listed right next to Chris Straub at Straub Technologies.

 

http://www.straubtechnologies.com/contact-us/

 

Perhaps Chris Straub who you refer to and Scott Foxwell have different opinions?

 

I think it boils down to the tradespace each person must perform if they are the ones responsible and in control of part selection. Positives versus negatives and the weight factor of each.

[sportsroof69 13]

Or the application of a BBC isn't the same as building an SBF. Either way.....

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

Or the application of a BBC isn't the same as building an SBF. Either way.....

 

Very well could be. I didn't get that sense, but the good thing is people can read it for themselves as opposed to hearing it second hand.

[barnett468 418]

barnett468, thanks for taking the time to write up the information.

 

Mach I, I forgot to mention that GM used forged cranks in over 25 different small block models starting in 1929 . . Also, since GM continued using forged cranks in some of the old school engines until at least 1983, it seems that if they would have determined thru warranty clams that a forged did cause a stock block to break, they would have simply discontinued the practice.

 

Between myself and just one of my friends, we have cumulatively built well over 500 engines, and many of those were high perf ones, and I have never had a single engine that I built fail since I built my first engine way back in 1970 . . Also, on the few engines that we did see that had broken blocks, it is was typically on ones with non forged cranks.

 

Also, since I have read a couple people state that a cast crank an be used on an engine with close to 800 hp, which I don't doubt a few people have tried, if they are so reliable, I wonder why Ford is having a forged crank installed in their 427’s when they could run a cast one, especially since a cast crank costs $400.00 less and they could therefore reduce the price of their engine making it more competitively priced and appealing to cost conscious buyers.

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Edited December 21, 2014 by barnett468

[sportsroof69 13]

You're typical blabber filled response that's gotten you banned from every other car forum you're a member of, yet you've failed to ever unveil a single project you've ever worked on. Comparing stock to slightly modified power producing engines, to something that pushes the absolute limits is a funny way for you to attempt to hammer home a point. A person with any common sense can read this and differentiate between what I'm saying and all your pointless rambling. When I saw you arguing about camshafts with Ed Curtis on corral, it was about the funniest thing I've seen.

 

 

 

Just as I said, some will not agree, but for you people building an engine out there, think outside the box of these things people claim you need. Talk to builders, and question them. I was just throwing another point of view into the mix, and have shown some of my personal experience with my personal engine to back it up. If it makes you happy to use a forged crank, then do it.

Edited December 20, 2014 by sportsroof69

[barnett468 418]

interesting because in the following thread, Scott Foxwell notes to the op, why bother with a cast crank when a forged crank is so cheap. I don't get the impression from that particular comment that a forged crank can be all that bad in a stock block (I would assume the op in that thread is using a stock block if they are asking about cast cranks).

 

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259142

 

Scott Foxwell is listed right next to Chris Straub at Straub Technologies.

 

http://www.straubtechnologies.com/contact-us/

 

 

Hello BuckeyDemon;

 

I read the comments in the link you posted and I agree with your interpretation of Foxwells post, however, unless he clarifies it, which can easily be done by sending him am email and asking him, it's impossible to say for certain.

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[DocWok 30]

Anybody know why Barnett468 got banned? - Vintage Mustang Forums

 

forums.vintage-mustang.com/.../700409-anybody-know-why-barnett46...[/url]

• Cached
  

 

 

Nov 12, 2013 - 12 posts - ‎9 authors

I think it's a loss to this forum so hopefully whomever banned him would ... I seen Barnett tried to make up a few other names and got banned ...

[Pakrat 1,043]

Is this one of those extremely rare cases where I actually need to lock a thread on our forums?

 

Typically we have a much friendlier environment than others and I like to keep it that way. The occasional passionate and slightly heated debate is one thing but if people are known to cause trouble everywhere they go I'm not going to wait for escalation before I take action.

[beecj0 11]

I for one have been come here less due to b468 specifically. Its hard to read through all the ramblings to make sure you're not repeating what has been said. In this particular case, it is obvious he hasn't built a motor with enough power to split stock block. Yet he says you need to run high dollar parts to make reliable power. Its magazine bs! He is helpful in many ways, but can only seem to see things from one angle. If we say different, he argues. With first hand experience!

[SA69mach 39]

I think he is trying to help.

Like most people he has a point of view, and opinions, and will argue his point. Nothing wrong with that.

 

No one is ever 100% right in terms of "is this thing better than that thing?" questions.

These forums are full of opinions. Everyone has one, and they all stink - If I remember the line correctly..... I have enjoyed the posts and information from both of the main protagonists.

Who could possibly say is "right"? I don't think it matters. I really love how Sportsroof has built a killer engine and races his car - very cool. AND, I like the historical stuff about engines from Barnett, as well as the volumes dedicated to parts and build specs.

Very entertaining.

 

If I recall the OP's opening line - he appears to be dreaming of a big hp engine for his car and has no engine building experience. Virtually none of the information posted thus far is going to convince him to go either one way (crate) or the other(FE power build)

 

It has not gotten nasty yet. I say let it be...

[Max Power 74]

I think he is trying to help.

Like most people he has a point of view, and opinions, and will argue his point. Nothing wrong with that.

 

No one is ever 100% right in terms of "is this thing better than that thing?" questions.

These forums are full of opinions. Everyone has one, and they all stink - If I remember the line correctly..... I have enjoyed the posts and information from both of the main protagonists.

Who could possibly say is "right"? I don't think it matters. I really love how Sportsroof has built a killer engine and races his car - very cool. AND, I like the historical stuff about engines from Barnett, as well as the volumes dedicated to parts and build specs.

Very entertaining.

 

If I recall the OP's opening line - he appears to be dreaming of a big hp engine for his car and has no engine building experience. Virtually none of the information posted thus far is going to convince him to go either one way (crate) or the other(FE power build)

 

It has not gotten nasty yet. I say let it be...

 

I agree

[MikeStang 247]

My engine is built to almost the exact spec as Sportsroof69s motor is...same internals but I have ross pistons and he has a bit more Cam...as of now my car has about 3000 or so miles on it with no issues and I'm driving it from Baton Rouge to Houston on the 26th so if you see a broken down green Mustang on the side of the road you better stop and pick me up HAHA.

[juit 34]

I agree

 

Same here at least he tries to help, whith me he has sticked with any problem till the end, if he has a mustang or not i dont care

 

Vintage forum is a bit too agresive, this forum has a easy going theme

 

 

 

just my two cents

Edited December 24, 2014 by juit

[barnett468 418]

.

The following is only for clarification . . It is not intended to be argumentative, abrasive, or off topic, as imo some of the posts from others on this thread have been.

 

My thanks to SA69mach, Max Power, Juit and others for their comments.

 

I never said, nor implied, that a cast Chinese crank would break at 500 hp.

 

 

My friend is considering getting a custom cam from Chris Straub on my suggestion and is weighing whether to run a forged or cast crank in his particular application due to limited funds, so I told him what I had read and to ask Chris Straub if he had ever said that a forged crank could ever be harmful to run in any size or type of stock block and specifically in a 351 Windsor since that is what these comments were about and is also what my friend is building. His exact reply is posted at the bottom of the page.

 

If one wants a custom cam or Morel lifters, or recommendations as to which crank is best to run in a particular application, I recommend him as another source.

 

 

The cast/forged crank discussion goes a lot farther than cost. Contrary to popular belief, a forged crank will not always live longer in all applications. These 351 blocks are pretty strong, but they do flex, and there's no way around it. As the block tries to flex around a forged crank, it tends to break around the main caps. A cast crank will flex with the block.

 

 

FUN FACT

 

Chris Straub (who did my camshaft) also agrees with the cast crank.

 

 

Full email reply from Chris Straub.

 

“I would not have said that. What I would have said is a steel crank, cast or steel, in an OEM 302 or 351W block will last longer than the block as the blocks wont’ take as much HP as what the cranks will making them the weak link. Fords main webbing is the not the strongest that is why main girdles are used on Fords.

 

Chris

 

www.straubtechnologies.com

 

 

 

Post 8 from Scott Foxwell in the link below.

 

"For as inexpensively as you can get a Scat (or other import) forged crank, why bother with the cast?

 

On a bottom end, I say buy once, cry once.

 

Build it to last and don't look back.

 

Having said that, the Scat 9000 cranks for what they are are probably the best bang for the buck. Just don't expect them to be something they're not.

 

I'd never use one out of the box and personally wouldn't recommend one for a performance build."

 

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259142

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Edited December 24, 2014 by barnett468

[sportsroof69 13]

Lol....that's funny. Chris and I have had several phone conversations about various things. Scott Foxwell is irrelevant as I've never spoken to the guy in my life. Maybe as someone who has purchased many camshafts from Chris, he's a bit more open.

Edited December 24, 2014 by sportsroof69

[LindenBruce 27]

OP,

 

A good factory cast crank will prolly fit your needs very well. If you are racing that is a different story. You need to consider the engine's primary usage and build it from there.

 

As far as forged v. cast think of it like this. Have you ever taken a piece of cold rolled steel and locked it in a vise? Then bent it back of forth until it broke? Then take a piece of hardened steel and do the same thing. The harder steel will break long before the softer steel.

 

Same with fasteners. Take a grade 5 bolt and turn in in until it breaks. You will notice it twisting long before it breaks. Now do the same with a grade 8 bolt. It won't twist much before it suddenly snaps. It's like tapping threads. Have you ever been running a tap and suddenly it snaps? Same thing. The harder something is the more brittle it will be and have less of an ability to flex under load and survive.

 

Flex, to an extent of course, is good as the parts snap back as soon as the stresses that caused the flex diminish. The harder the part the less it will flex. BUT, the sooner it will snap during prolonged stresses. The harder parts are best for sudden short term high stress loads. It is a balancing act for sure no doubt about it.

 

Of course too soft of a part will stretch and stay there. That's why you don't use softer bolts for critical parts such as rods, cranks and heads etc. etc. When those softer parts stretch you gain clearances and when that happens parts wear rapidly and start to spin causing rapid failure.

 

I hope this helped. Don't be afraid of your factory cast crank. And one last thing to consider. If you harden a link in a chain, you only cause the next link down the line to break. And you can only harden so many things before you run out of links.

 

B.